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EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

statewatch.org

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Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#31

Post by docdeek »

consp wrote: post #22
fdfgyu wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has the EU ever been democratic? Brussels has lost, but ignored every referendum for the last 20 years.

Remind me please what eu wide referendum was ignored?

All of them? None of them? To my knowledge there have been plenty of referendums regarding the EU over the last half century but there has not been a single EU-wide referendum. There’s a list here (pp.5-6) of plenty of them which clearly notes that some EU countries have not held referendums. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2022/7293...

Perhaps the other commenter was refering to the French, Dutch, and Irish EU Constitution referendums that all failed. In the case of the two former members, they never went back to the people and found an alternate way to get what the EU wanted into practice. In the case of the Irish, they voted again until, it seems, they voted for the ‘right’ side of the issue.

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#32

Post by generic92034 »

ThalesX wrote: post #27
generic92034 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stance ("ever been democratic") is a bit too strong for my taste. There are definitely issues with the EU parliament having no rights to propose laws or the amount of indirection between voters and some powerful institutions. But calling the EU not being democratic is going too far, in my eyes. Especially considering the setup as a confederation of sovereign countries, so the comparison to individual countries'…

> But calling the EU not being democratic is going too far I'm an EU citizen. I have minimal saying in who our commissioner is and what members of the cabinet get chosen. I have a vote which I give to whatever party. After that, the vote for commissioner is secret; I have no idea who voted for what. After that, the negociations for the cabinet are secret; I have no idea what the criteria are and what the plans are. I…

So we are in complete agreement.

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#33

Post by FollowingTheDao »

smashah wrote: post #21
johndunne wrote: post #18

From the article "Climate activism is on the rise, together with an increased willingness to use violence, marking a shift from environmental activism to environmental extremism" As far as I can tell, climate activists have been making a nuisance of themselves much more than a 'willingness to use violence.' I find this justification concerning, to say the least.

Maybe it's not a coincidence that the more shameless politicians ignore peaceful protests while doing the bidding of lobbyists, the more climate-concerned people feel the need to escalate their nuisance tactics which conveniently makes those same shameless politicians feel that they can justify more draconian measures to stifle privacy, speech and activism.

Ghandi set the standard for effective peaceful protests. Most protests I see people doing are laughably useless.

You have to know how to suffer for what is important.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Mahatma-Gandhi/Resistan...

"Thus was born satyagraha (“devotion to truth”), a new technique for redressing wrongs through inviting, rather than inflicting, suffering, for resisting adversaries without rancor and fighting them without violence."

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#35

Post by t-3 »

kranke155 wrote: post #16
rosmax_1337 wrote: post #6

This will be used to silence political dissent in the EU. The current rulers fear the change which could come about if they allow the political climate to shift in the direction which it is ready to.

How silly. Orban and his fellows are the ones who engage in authoritarianism.

Is Hungary no longer part of the EU?

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#36

Post by v7n »

The headline got me worried, but after reading the article it became clear that was purposeful with weasel words like "states can now collect". There seem to be no new databases or new actual mechanisms in place, it's just about the clarification of which kind of potential threats are encouraged to be entered into the already existent system.

The criteria seems reasonable enough. If there is objective, verifiable information that an individual, who has been sharing terrorist content online, will commit a violent extremist offense in the future and that offense would be serious enough... I would hope that this data is shared between the Union members now and in the future.

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#37

Post by bawolff »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #14

That's pretty crazy, it looks a lot like in Minority Report. Notice the reference to a "future criminal offence" and the phrase "leading to the belief" in the criteria: A “minimum materiality threshold”. This requires “objective and verifiable… information suggesting that a criminal offence, or future criminal offence, has a certain degree of seriousness.” A “basic indicative criterion”. This requires “objective, ver…

Minority report was about arresting people based on the word of psychics. There is a big difference between that and having evidence someone intends to commit a crime in the future.

Of course it is possible to abuse such things, which is why its important to have reasonable definitions for these things.

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#38

Post by squigz »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #33
smashah wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's not a coincidence that the more shameless politicians ignore peaceful protests while doing the bidding of lobbyists, the more climate-concerned people feel the need to escalate their nuisance tactics which conveniently makes those same shameless politicians feel that they can justify more draconian measures to stifle privacy, speech and activism.

Ghandi set the standard for effective peaceful protests. Most protests I see people doing are laughably useless. You have to know how to suffer for what is important. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Mahatma-Gandhi/Resistan... "Thus was born satyagraha (“devotion to truth”), a new technique for redressing wrongs through inviting, rather than inflicting, suffering, for resisting adversaries without rancor and figh…

Devotion to one's ideals despite suffering for them is admirable, but not an option for many people. They have children to take care of, families to provide for. They just want to live their lives without inviting more pain into it. That is not something I'm going to hold against people or laugh at them for.

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#39

Post by yunohn »

consp wrote: post #24
johndunne wrote: post #18

From the article "Climate activism is on the rise, together with an increased willingness to use violence, marking a shift from environmental activism to environmental extremism" As far as I can tell, climate activists have been making a nuisance of themselves much more than a 'willingness to use violence.' I find this justification concerning, to say the least.

Funny thing with those violent protesters is ... Sometimes they are not protesters. I had the opportunity to be with a peaceful protest against canceling student financing and the people who started violence after it finished were neither part of, nor affected by, the issues or organisation.

Yes, sadly this is a common tactic by the incumbent corruption (politicians, corporations, otherwise) to make the protestors seem dangerous. Nothing new, but maybe it hasn’t been exposed at home as much as it has been abroad.

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#40

Post by llm_trw »

To quote some of the people I know who would be impacted the most by this:

> Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

If they'd not spend the last 10 years purging the old guard who they called free speech fanatics they'd have someone in their corner. Now I just have the world tiniest violin for them.

Or to use much better words than mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUqytjlHNIM

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