Live data from Hacker News

Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

wpengine.com

21–30 of 717 posts

Re: Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

#21

"What Defendants’ statements and assurances did not disclose is that while they were publicly touting their purported good deed of moving this intellectual property away from a private company, and into the safe hands of a nonprofit, Defendants in fact had quietly transferred irrevocable, exclusive, royalty-free rights in the WordPress trademarks right back to Automattic that very same day in 2010. This meant that fa…

[dead]

Re: Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

#22
post #15

Um this seems pretty horrendous (from a moral PoV, no idea about legal), at the time Mullenweg apparently said > Automattic has transferred the WordPress trademark to the WordPress > Foundation, the nonprofit dedicated to promoting and ensuring access to WordPress and related > open source projects in perpetuity. This means that the most central piece of WordPress’s identity, > its name, is now fully independent from…

Source for the Mullenweg statement https://ma.tt/2010/09/wordpress-trademark

Re: Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

#23

> Mullenweg failed to disclose this exclusive licensing arrangement between his nonprofit (the WordPress Foundation) and his for-profit (Automattic) in the WordPress Foundation’s tax filings with the California government, claiming that there were no “contracts ... between [WordPress Foundation] and any officer, director or trustee ... or with an entity in which any such officer, director or trustee had any financial…

[deleted]

Re: Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

#24
post #15

Um this seems pretty horrendous (from a moral PoV, no idea about legal), at the time Mullenweg apparently said > Automattic has transferred the WordPress trademark to the WordPress > Foundation, the nonprofit dedicated to promoting and ensuring access to WordPress and related > open source projects in perpetuity. This means that the most central piece of WordPress’s identity, > its name, is now fully independent from…

Also, I saw on X earlier today, someone posted that the agreement WP Engine was being asked to agree to included verbiage that WPE would not be allowed to fork WordPress. Is not forkability one of the keys to OSS? Shady.

Re: Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

#25
post #10

What's sad here is that this dispute isn't likely to make Wordpress any better, but rather send money to lawyers and reduce enthusiasm for the OSS project.

Wait that's not making it better? /s

Seriously though, it's a freaking legacy. Sad to see it go this way.

Re: Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

#26
post #10

What's sad here is that this dispute isn't likely to make Wordpress any better, but rather send money to lawyers and reduce enthusiasm for the OSS project.

I’m an arm length removed from all this drama having not used Wordpress in a while, but to be honest this opinion feels overblown. To an outsider, it just looks like some legal issue between two entities irrelevant to my concerns on whether I’d use or contribute to Wordpress in the future. Something that happens between corporations all the time

My guess is there will be some settlement, one party will walk away with a better position than before, and that will be that

Re: Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

#27
post #26
post #10

What's sad here is that this dispute isn't likely to make Wordpress any better, but rather send money to lawyers and reduce enthusiasm for the OSS project.

I’m an arm length removed from all this drama having not used Wordpress in a while, but to be honest this opinion feels overblown. To an outsider, it just looks like some legal issue between two entities irrelevant to my concerns on whether I’d use or contribute to Wordpress in the future. Something that happens between corporations all the time My guess is there will be some settlement, one party will walk away with…

> irrelevant to my concerns

This is very relevant to anyone that cares about open source.

Companies being able to host any OSS without the threat of a trademark dispute is vital to the software industry.

Re: Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

#28

That's what going "nuclear" looks like ... I guess Mullenweg found out. Sadly, instead of supporting open source with $5 million, they each will spend 10 million on lawyers.

> Sadly, instead of supporting open source with $5 million, they each will spend 10 million on lawyers.

I think both sides more or less see this as a case of standing up against a bully — they may lose out in the short run (in terms of money), but they think that they will discourage future bullying by fighting back.

I’m not sure if either side is right, but that’s why they both drew a line in the sand, imho.

Re: Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

#29

That's what going "nuclear" looks like ... I guess Mullenweg found out. Sadly, instead of supporting open source with $5 million, they each will spend 10 million on lawyers.

Automattic requested well over $10 million annually from WP Engine, so WP engine would find a lawyer battle cheaper.

Re: Filed: WP Engine Inc. v Automattic Inc. and Matthew Charles Mullenweg [pdf]

#30

> Mullenweg failed to disclose this exclusive licensing arrangement between his nonprofit (the WordPress Foundation) and his for-profit (Automattic) in the WordPress Foundation’s tax filings with the California government, claiming that there were no “contracts ... between [WordPress Foundation] and any officer, director or trustee ... or with an entity in which any such officer, director or trustee had any financial…

It certainly sounds so, but I went looking for the source and I'm not sure what to look for besides the allegation itself. In particular, I did not find a date for that particular claim.

There are also several holes in adjacent statements - for example, ignoring the fact that the Foundation was "paid" in the form of being given the trademark in the first place. And the fact that trademarks can change value over time.

Post reply on HN