Live data from Hacker News

A $1k Wheelchair

newmobility.com

421–430 of 456 posts

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#421
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently in Rwanda where seemingly half the goods of this very hilly country are transported by bicycle, and those are single speed old english style bikes with steel frame reinforced with rebar. (they carry hundred of kgs on the racks). The bike are run 8 hours a day for years and cost $100.

In India millions of women are walking miles to fetch few gallons of water everyday. I don't get why people in California are screaming water shortage. Should be possible for Americans to live on a gallon of water if hundred of millions live like that in India.

Possible? Sure, and a lot oft of hippie/environmentalist types in America do live that way, both in cities and in rural areas.

Is it desirable? Not necessarily. The goal is to be more efficient with water sourcing, distribution, and usage so people have more water to use, not less.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the wheelchairs used in hospitals are to push patients short distances across hard flat floors.

The OP isn't about hospital wheelchairs, but daily use wheelchairs. It's just most of the commenters here showing ignorance or ableism by suggesting the two are equivalent.

I'm not saying otherwise - my comment reaffirms this. There are two separate things going on here -

- You can buy a reasonable wheelchair for moving people relatively short distances across flat surfaces for less than $1000. E.g those used in hospitals and for the partially mobile.

- You cannot currently buy a reasonable self propelled wheelchair for full time use for less than $1000 (give or take the manufacturer in the article).

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#423
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, I was expecting to see something not very impressive at that link, but was pleasantly surprised. My chair is about $7k and while this one doesn't look like it would work for me, it is definitely much better than the cheap hospital chairs.

Are the hospital chairs cheap? Genuinely asking...

Amazon appears to offer such chairs for like $200? They're probably crap though.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#424

In the UK you can buy a simple wheelchair for 132 GBP: https://www.uk-wheelchairs.co.uk/ugo-essential-self-propelle... And what look like slightly fancier ones for between 300 and 500 GBP: https://www.millercare.co.uk/collections/self-propel-wheelch... A magnesium alloy framed one is only 450 GBP: https://www.mobilitysmart.co.uk/magnelite-self-propelled-whe... So what am I missing?

Same in France (literally the first Google link): https://monfauteuilroulant.com/Fauteuils-Roulants/Fauteuil-r... It looks like a US specific problem.

You can buy that sort of chair in the US for cheap, too. It's not the sort of chair that is being sold by the company in the article.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#425
post #26

It's odd seeing the number of dismissive comments missing that there are whole categories of wheelchairs for different purposes. It's like asking why XPSs exist when there are Chromebooks, something most people commenting here would immediately realize as a silly question because they suit different needs and functions but the idea doesn't come up because it's an unfamiliar problem.

"I don't get it, you can buy a laptop from Walmart for $75, what's the problem"

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By chance, don't you know why we cannot have electric wheelchair for everyone who needs it? Manual wheelchair seems to be not very convenient and to require lot of effort to use it.

Motorized wheelchairs are not a good fit for everyone. They are much bigger, heavier, harder to transport (you need a van), and even with a clutch to allow emergency non-motorized use, because of their design and weight, they can't be really used without a motor, so you're f*ked if the battery runs out. They're good for some uses, for some folks, but are not a solution for all.

Newer battery tech is helping improve the “compactness” of motorized chairs. We have a “fold and go” (https://www.foldandgowheelchairs.com/) which can fit in a car trunk (though still want a full size sedan or bigger if you plan on putting anything else in there) and at 60lbs is only about 50% heavier than some of the heavy “standard” chairs out there. Still not something you’re going to move well on your own without an able bodied assistant or some specialized equipment, but compared to older motorized chairs it’s a huge improvement

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first kagi result also shows many options below AUD $1000 (USD $700 or so): https://www.buywheelchair.com.au/ I suspect it's like anything in the US - despite much of the global research being done there at taxpayer expense, Americans seem to get screwed over on anything health or medicine related. And they continue to argue that their health system is a good one, for some weird Stockholm Syndrome-esque reason I s…

> Americans seem to get screwed over on anything health or medicine related. And they continue to argue that their health system is a good one, for some weird Stockholm Syndrome-esque reason I suppose. "U.S. allies ride free on American defense spending. Health care, indeed, is a kind of second NATO." https://archive.is/sI50E

You're right. Historically, a significant amount of medical innovation came from the US due to the gross abuse of the US taxpayer.

> If the world’s largest health economy limited drug companies to “fair” returns — as other countries try to — then few new drugs would be created.

This simply isn't true as peacetime modern governments are continually turning on the tap for medical and health research, with little to no impact on the public system:

https://vantagemedtech.com/what-country-leads-the-world-in-m...

Both you and the article you linked seem to work off the assumption that nobody would have filled the void without the US. But motivation is reduced when someone else is doing the work for you.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first kagi result also shows many options below AUD $1000 (USD $700 or so): https://www.buywheelchair.com.au/ I suspect it's like anything in the US - despite much of the global research being done there at taxpayer expense, Americans seem to get screwed over on anything health or medicine related. And they continue to argue that their health system is a good one, for some weird Stockholm Syndrome-esque reason I s…

> I suspect it's like anything in the US I suspect its more of you don't really know the situation at all. You can get these cheap wheelchairs in the US as well. Here's one for ~$150US. https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/drive-medical-silver-sport... You wouldn't want to spend every day of your life in one of these chairs though. You're fundamentally misunderstanding the market for wheelchairs.

> I suspect its more of you don't really know the situation at all.

> You're fundamentally misunderstanding the market for wheelchairs.

You're correct, hence my terms like "assume" and "suspect". Can you enlighten me? My research has not helped me understand the daily impact and variances between a 1x and 50-100x priced product. In most industries the difference is very obvious with this large of a gap.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect it's like anything in the US I suspect its more of you don't really know the situation at all. You can get these cheap wheelchairs in the US as well. Here's one for ~$150US. https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/drive-medical-silver-sport... You wouldn't want to spend every day of your life in one of these chairs though. You're fundamentally misunderstanding the market for wheelchairs.

> I suspect its more of you don't really know the situation at all. > You're fundamentally misunderstanding the market for wheelchairs. You're correct, hence my terms like "assume" and "suspect". Can you enlighten me? My research has not helped me understand the daily impact and variances between a 1x and 50-100x priced product. In most industries the difference is very obvious with this large of a gap.

It is obvious if one bothers to actually look. But instead, you just wanted to hate on the US instead of spending even a minute looking and understanding. Try not letting your biases overwhelm your outlook in life and actually look at reality instead of jumping into assumptions.

The cheap products we've shared here just have a single list of specs for the dimensions. Here's an order form for one of those expensive chairs:

https://permobilwebcdn.azureedge.net/media/npxlfuoh/tr-tra-o...

Just look at how many different widths and lengths and angles and diameters these things are optioned out to. The different sizes, shapes, and styles of support inserts. And for a lot of those measures is not just that it is adjusted to those sizes; it's built to that size by order. There's not just a stock room with size 1, 2, and 3 chairs there; they're all custom made to order. Because everyone is different, with many in wheelchairs having very specific needs in terms of shape and support. It's like comparing a one-size-fits-all t-shirt to a custom-tailored suit and expecting it to be the same price, comfort, and fit.

And then on top of that all the components used in the higher end wheelchairs are just way nicer and far more rugged. Far better bearings. Higher quality fabrics and padding (most of those cheap ones are just plastic slings!). Wheels which are far truer and better built. Things which are welded instead of just cheap bolts and nuts holding it together.

Having a chair that doesn't fit you right or doesn't support you properly leads to more injuries. RSI injuries, pressure injuries, joint injuries, circulation issues, all kinds of other problems. You're bound to develop a whole host of issues if you're going to use one of these cheap chairs all day every day for your life.

It's like asking what's the difference between a wooden stool with a wobble and a $5,000 ergonomic rolling and reclining desk chair. Acting like those differences are non-obvious. Except, it's something the owner has to use every day of their life to go practically everywhere and do anything. For someone who has to be in the chair every day of their life, it is not just luxury. It is injury prevention. It is making their challenging life just a little bit smoother.

I'm certain whoever actually foots the bill for a nice, custom wheelchair wherever you are is probably spending similar-ish money for a similar-ish product. Maybe it is a private insurer, maybe it is the government. But if its someone actually needing to spend their life in a chair, I'd hope whoever is paying buys something far nicer than the cheap chairs we've linked here. They're not good for anything more than being wheeled around in a hospital for a short trip with an orderly pushing it. Or if you're just needing a chair for a few weeks to a month or two.

I do agree the US healthcare system is trash, but not because custom wheelchairs have a somewhat high cost. Its trash because so many end up needing to cover that high cost out of pocket. The people making a high-quality wheelchair from high-quality components should be well compensated in the same way someone making a really nice office chair should be well compensated. But since people need these to effectively function, cost shouldn't prevent people from accessing them IMO.

Post reply on HN