Hrm. Big fan of Justine and their work. However this is probably the least interesting benchmark test case for a Mutex. You should never have a bunch of threads constantly spamming the same mutex. So which mutex implementation best handles this case isn’t particularly interesting, imho.
The Fastest Mutexes
11–20 of 360 posts
Re: The Fastest Mutexes
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel the similarly about C"s "volatile" (when used in multithreaded code rather than device drivers). I've seen people scatter volatile around randomly until the problem goes away. Given that volatile significantly disturbs the timing of a program, any timing sensitive bugs can be masked by adding it around randomly.
There seems to be a lot of voodoo beliefs around concurrent programming that lead to really bad things. One of the best books I've read on it is Java concurrency in practice [1]. It does an excellent job of dispelling these occultic beliefs and letting the reader know exactly when and how concurrency should be implemented. It is applicable to more languages than just java, especially since many have adopted large par…
[deleted]
Re: The Fastest Mutexes
#13Hrm. Big fan of Justine and their work. However this is probably the least interesting benchmark test case for a Mutex. You should never have a bunch of threads constantly spamming the same mutex. So which mutex implementation best handles this case isn’t particularly interesting, imho.
What do you consider a good benchmark test case for mutexes?
Re: The Fastest Mutexes
#14I have to admit that I have an extremely visceral, negative feeling whenever I see a mutex, simply because I've had to debug enough code written by engineers who don't really know how to use them, so a large part of previous jobs has been to remove locks from code and replace with some kind of queue or messaging abstraction [1]. It's only recently that I've been actively looking into different locking algorithms, jus…
What are some examples of people using mutexes wrong? I know one gotcha is you need to maintain a consistent hierarchy. Usually the easiest way to not get snagged by that, is to have critical sections be small and pure. Java's whole MO of letting people add a synchronized keyword to an entire method was probably not the greatest idea.
Re: The Fastest Mutexes
#15Hrm. Big fan of Justine and their work. However this is probably the least interesting benchmark test case for a Mutex. You should never have a bunch of threads constantly spamming the same mutex. So which mutex implementation best handles this case isn’t particularly interesting, imho.
what else would you measure? certainly the uncontended case is important and a baseline, but otherwise this is kind of weak point for mutexes - that if you don't handle contention well then you have idle hardware or lots of additional scheduler work or kernel crossings.
[edit - I forget to even mention one of the most important things, that locks that reform poorly under contention can have really negative systemic effects like hot spotting the memory network, and that would show up here too]
Re: The Fastest Mutexes
#16is comsmopolitan’s mutex also less fair than the other implementations compared?
It's not fair, but (from the description) it does make some effort to be fairish. It'll queue up waiters in a linked list that is fairly fair, but new people can jump ahead of the line and grab the CAS before the list is processed. However, it has added logic to start chunking through the queue after 30 wakeups from a waiter. With that, waiting isn't indefinite, but it also isn't fair. I have no idea how that compare…
Fairness is known to cause serious problems such as convoys, so while "unfair" isn't itself a desirable property, you might choose to be unfair because the alternatives are worse for some applications.
Probably a specifically Fair version of any concurrent primitive which can be fair is worth giving a distinct name, the way you'd offer both a stable and an unstable sort, knowing that the unstable sort will often (though not always) be faster but some people cannot tolerate an unstable sort so it's useless for them.
On the other hand, maybe it's an attractive nuisance and if you offered this you'd find most users took your FairMutex, and then were angry because of the inevitable problems from fairness, even though the unfair one was right there...
Re: The Fastest Mutexes
#17Hrm. Big fan of Justine and their work. However this is probably the least interesting benchmark test case for a Mutex. You should never have a bunch of threads constantly spamming the same mutex. So which mutex implementation best handles this case isn’t particularly interesting, imho.
> You should never have a bunch of threads constantly spamming the same mutex.
I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. I can think of a few cases where you might end up with a bunch of threads challenging the same mutex.
A simple example would be something like concurrently populating some data structure (list/dict/etc). Yes, you could accomplish this with message passing, but that uses more memory and would be slower than just having everything wait to write to a shared location.
Re: The Fastest Mutexes
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel the similarly about C"s "volatile" (when used in multithreaded code rather than device drivers). I've seen people scatter volatile around randomly until the problem goes away. Given that volatile significantly disturbs the timing of a program, any timing sensitive bugs can be masked by adding it around randomly.
There seems to be a lot of voodoo beliefs around concurrent programming that lead to really bad things. One of the best books I've read on it is Java concurrency in practice [1]. It does an excellent job of dispelling these occultic beliefs and letting the reader know exactly when and how concurrency should be implemented. It is applicable to more languages than just java, especially since many have adopted large par…
> However, it's a little baffling to me why it's so hard for devs to grasp how to properly maintain shared state. Instead of just learning the basic rules, it gets couched in "It's just too hard to understand so keep adding things until it works".
Probably because most people aren't aware that there are basic rules to be learned. I'd imagine the typical experience is, you're very familiar with single-threaded code, and now you're trying to let other threads work with your data. You have heard that there are many pitfalls, and that there are special-purpose tools like mutexes to avoid those, but you look at the examples and find them mostly baffling. "Why do they perform these incantations for this data but not that data, or in this place but not that place?" So you come up with some weird mental model and move on with your life, never aware that there are underlying principles for maintaining shared state.
Personally, I didn't understand mutexes very well at all, until I started looking into what the atomic memory orderings from C++ et al. were supposed to mean.
Re: The Fastest Mutexes
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel the similarly about C"s "volatile" (when used in multithreaded code rather than device drivers). I've seen people scatter volatile around randomly until the problem goes away. Given that volatile significantly disturbs the timing of a program, any timing sensitive bugs can be masked by adding it around randomly.
There seems to be a lot of voodoo beliefs around concurrent programming that lead to really bad things. One of the best books I've read on it is Java concurrency in practice [1]. It does an excellent job of dispelling these occultic beliefs and letting the reader know exactly when and how concurrency should be implemented. It is applicable to more languages than just java, especially since many have adopted large par…
Maybe because I had a complete semester of multiprogramming in the uni, I see almost trivial to work in such environments, and cannot comprehend why is so much mystic and voodo. Actually is pretty simple.
Re: The Fastest Mutexes
#20I have to admit that I have an extremely visceral, negative feeling whenever I see a mutex, simply because I've had to debug enough code written by engineers who don't really know how to use them, so a large part of previous jobs has been to remove locks from code and replace with some kind of queue or messaging abstraction [1]. It's only recently that I've been actively looking into different locking algorithms, jus…
[deleted]