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A $1k Wheelchair

newmobility.com

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Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#261

Post by Tepix »

nothercastle wrote: post #232
metadat wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://bikesdirect.com/ Lots of good bikes in the $300-500 range. I've had one for more than 12 years and thousands of miles without issue or drama. I paid $300 for a single speed road bike from BD in 2012, it looks fancier than it is with a carbon fiber fork. Added some Gatorskin tires and it's worked ever since, I only clean and lube the chain every 5 years so far. Made in Canadia.

Most companies have a basic of the basic bikes in the 400-500 range but these are built with cheap parts that won’t last more than a season. A step up from that would be a 700-100$ bike that’s more likely to last. For daily wheelchair use don’t expect the 500$ level parts to be good enough.

You're replying to someone who just stated they have such a bike and it has already lasted 12 years.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#262

Post by roywiggins »

Netherland4TW wrote: post #252
roywiggins wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's funny seeing comments like this on the same website where people insist- not unreasonably- that buying $3k ergonomic office chairs and motorized sit-stand desks for office workers is a must. Why can't they sit on piled up packing pallets? It's much cheaper and still kind of chair-shaped.

I don't believe the parent comment is saying people who need wheelchairs should get a cheaper worse option, they are pointing out that reasonable options in Germany exist for less than a grand whereas in the US, these reasonable options are borderline unaffordable

The Amazon results in the US are basically the same. You can buy chairs for $200 in the same way you can buy a bike from Walmart for $200. $200 chairs aren't suitable for day-to-day mobility, especially outside. This article I found in another comment explains the difference:

https://www.sammcintosh.com/blog/wheelchairtypes0620

Hospital chairs and everyday chairs are both technically wheelchairs, but they are totally different products for different purposes.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#263

Post by asddubs »

650REDHAIR wrote: post #223
pkphilip wrote: post #214

$1k for a manual wheelchair? and that is considered cheap? I have no idea why a wheelchair should be that expensive. We get them here in India for far less - you can buy pretty good wheelchairs for much less than $100. You can get powered wheelchairs for around $500. https://www.amazon.in/b/ref=dp_bc_aui_C_3?ie=UTF8&node=11365...

Those are not good wheelchairs for independent people to spend 16+ hours in. I work in EMS and see all kinds of "budget" wheelchairs and they'll all shit. The parts alone for this lightweight chair have to crack $300.

I don't doubt it, but just out of curiosity, could you elaborate the ways in which they're shit?

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#264

Post by makeitdouble »

flower-giraffe wrote: post #253

There should be an IKEA for medical devices relying on scale to absorb design, testing and regulatory compliance. The AirPod hearing aid feature and other OTC hearing aids from headphone manufacturers demonstrate it’s possible to leverage modern consumer electronics improvements for devices with a higher engineering barrier to entry than a wheelchair. I think paying a premium for anything via insurance is detrimental…

I'm really curious about the hearing aid feature, but haven't seen any review actually featuring a patient using it in a real world situation. I was assuming there would be pre FDA approval reviews, but doesn't seem to be the case.

The older accessibility feature didn't seem to be that great, and I'm pretty eager to see how much it improves through the complete revamp of it before throwing money at it.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#265

Post by TeMPOraL »

orlehuxwell wrote: post #251
amiga wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a guy who has disassembled and reverse engineered a standard Jazzy power chair, and what I noticed was the attention to detail regarding failures. The chair is thoroughly designed to shut down at the slightest bit of trouble. There's some redundancy in things like the controller, where it used redundant hall effect sensors that were identical to the others, but ran in an inverted power profile, to detect any weir…

My mum recently had a curbside crash while she was riding an e-bike. This resulted in her breaking bones in both her hands, which resulted in a surgery in her left hand and various problems (tcl fracture related) with her right hand. This makes me actually appreciate reliability in e-vehicles motor cutoffs etc. I keep thinking if this could have been avoided with a better quality e-bike or if actually it would be eve…

I know public use devices have their own problems with reliability, but I did almost cause a traffic accident a couple times over the years. Every time, the scooter's accelerator lever got "sticky" due to repetitive (mis)use, and would sometimes not go all the way to 0 when released. Stuck at ~10%, the scooter would brake normally and remain at halt under my weight, but the moment I stepped off it, it would suddenly launch itself at the cross traffic.

It's these little things that get you. The scooters all have some kind of debounce logic, disabling the accelerator until you're moving sufficiently fast - but the logic doesn't kick in when you stop without releasing the lever. A little bit of redundancy would've helped here.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#266

Post by hgomersall »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #219
hug wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the $118 bike is not going to be much fun, and may be assembled dangerously. It's still a bike , though, and a little TLC and attention to assembly before riding will prevent a significant number of problems. Even the reddit thread you linked just required some screw tightening and replacement of a derailleur -- and a cheap Shimano derailleur is $20 from my local bike store. Even if we completely discount the $1…

Yes, the $118 bike is not going to be much fun, and may be assembled dangerously. No, it'll be built dangerously. A cheap Shimano derailleur won't fix cracked welds or a broken frame. TLC won't make the frame true. Doubtful it'll last more than a few miles really. Yes, it will be heavy and clunky, but it will function in all of the ways that it is important for a bike to function. Ehh it'll be the bare minimum that y…

I got a cheap "bike" as a student and regretted it when a crank arm snapped clean off pulling away from the lights. No serious damage done to me, but the potential was there.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#267

Post by makeitdouble »

metadat wrote: post #190
nothercastle wrote: post #122

The BOM for this wheel chair is probably 200-300 of just wheels and bearings maybe more. People who say this can be bought for 200$ are completely out of touch. You can’t even buy a decent bike for much under a grad new and bikes have much better scale.

https://bikesdirect.com/ Lots of good bikes in the $300-500 range. I've had one for more than 12 years and thousands of miles without issue or drama. I paid $300 for a single speed road bike from BD in 2012, it looks fancier than it is with a carbon fiber fork. Added some Gatorskin tires and it's worked ever since, I only clean and lube the chain every 5 years so far. Made in Canadia.

On the bike comparison, we should keep in mind that a sub-par bike isn't much of an issue for the general public, as requiring more energy is fine (even sometimes seen as an advantage) for able bodies, and the bike breaking during a trip will usually mean just walking from there. Bikes' defaults will seldom be critical short of an accident happening.

You don't have that luxury with a wheelchair, you'll want decent efficiency and better reliability, which means better parts and better construction overall. That's where top end bikes are a more reasonable comparison IMHO.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#268

Post by jillesvangurp »

roywiggins wrote: post #260
jillesvangurp wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not talking about tech bros here but ordinary people desperate to get any wheel chair at all and then having to settle for some garbage quality insurer approved over priced thing that may or may not ship on a 6 month schedule. I don't think these wheel chairs have any magical properties over the stuff used in Germany. Other than that they are really expensive.

You can buy that sort of chair in America too, often called "hospital" chairs, for about the same price. They are "one size fits all" and therefore don't fit anyone. They are not designed to be used long-term. This link from another comment explains the difference: https://www.sammcintosh.com/blog/wheelchairtypes0620 If you need a wheelchair for a couple weeks it's fine. If you need it for life, not so fine. People w…

I would love to see some comments from German wheelchair users on this. I don't think US has particularly high or different standards for this stuff. I do know its healthcare system is a bit of a basket case.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#269

Post by _flux »

orlehuxwell wrote: post #251
amiga wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a guy who has disassembled and reverse engineered a standard Jazzy power chair, and what I noticed was the attention to detail regarding failures. The chair is thoroughly designed to shut down at the slightest bit of trouble. There's some redundancy in things like the controller, where it used redundant hall effect sensors that were identical to the others, but ran in an inverted power profile, to detect any weir…

My mum recently had a curbside crash while she was riding an e-bike. This resulted in her breaking bones in both her hands, which resulted in a surgery in her left hand and various problems (tcl fracture related) with her right hand. This makes me actually appreciate reliability in e-vehicles motor cutoffs etc. I keep thinking if this could have been avoided with a better quality e-bike or if actually it would be eve…

A friend has an e-unicycle (I think the category devices has some other name as well..) and he wanted to try out how it behaves in a track.

He sort of knew, but didn't expect it, that when the roll of the device exceeds a certain threshold, the device will shutdown. Even if you're on a curve going with some speed. Broke his wrist. Since then he's also wearing wrist protectors that keep the hand straight.

Actually it was a bit unexpected that it would have known to do that; it must have used its complete IMU data to even know it was rolled, as plain accelerometer would have been pointing "down" as usual.

Re: A $1k Wheelchair

#270

Post by roywiggins »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #268
roywiggins wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy that sort of chair in America too, often called "hospital" chairs, for about the same price. They are "one size fits all" and therefore don't fit anyone. They are not designed to be used long-term. This link from another comment explains the difference: https://www.sammcintosh.com/blog/wheelchairtypes0620 If you need a wheelchair for a couple weeks it's fine. If you need it for life, not so fine. People w…

I would love to see some comments from German wheelchair users on this. I don't think US has particularly high or different standards for this stuff. I do know its healthcare system is a bit of a basket case.

The chairs on Amazon.de and Amazon.com are the same exact cheapo "hospital" chairs that aren't suitable for long-term use for most people. Germans aren't all zipping around on cheap hospital chairs any more happily than Americans are.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/PEPE-Wheelchair-Lightweight-Trans...

https://www.amazon.com/Drive-Medical-Wheelchair-Removable-Fo...

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