Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 311 posts

Re: Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

#141

Post by jayrot »

bluGill wrote: post #82
HDThoreaun wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bookmakers can always lay the odds so that there’s equal money on each side. Then they’re just taking a 10% rake with zero risk. If they start getting killed by pros they’ll just move to the low risk strategy.

> Bookmakers can always lay the odds so that there’s equal money on each side No they can't. Large ones can, but the small ones sometimes cannot because they have to match the large ones but in a smaller pool. If everyone knows which team is going to win, diehard fans of the losing team will still bet on their team - large players capture that in their odds and break even. Small players don't have the same mix of cus…

Also, for what it's worth, the idea that betting lines and odds are set to make "equal money on both sides" is a very simplistic and often ignorant talking point. It is quite possible if not common, especially on big games like the SB, for the books to have significant exposure to one side.

Making betting lines is a crazy complex mix of the house essentially betting on an outcome themselves, tempered by a limit to exposure/liability as well as the need to keep lines in basic accordance with other linemakers.

It's unreal how good these guys are most times.

Re: Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

#142

Post by SoftTalker »

sickofparadox wrote: post #131
adw wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the players aren't employed by their teams, provided with healthcare and pensions and all the rest, then it absolutely is. The NCAA (for revenue sports) is a scam and everyone involved with any of it is morally bankrupt.

>If the players aren't employed by their teams, provided with healthcare and pensions and all the rest, then it absolutely is. Why? They are being paid, fed, housed, and educated in exchange for playing sports at nearly the highest level. Where is the injustice? They live lives of opulence and leisure that kings of previous ages could not even dream of.

College athletes get healthcare. They have team doctors and trainers, and for general healthcare if they aren't covered by their parents' insurance they will have insurance through the school (required) which will be paid out of their athletic scholarship. I don't know of any major university that would permit a residential student to not have health insurance coverage.

Re: Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

#143

Post by singleshot_ »

tomcam wrote: post #115
ronsor wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that people seem to just now realize that sports betting is a bad idea. As you said, the worst aspect is the large amount of marketing and advertising these platforms receive; I wouldn't care if they weren't pushed so heavily.

Now apply that same kind of thinking to legalized prostitution and human trafficking.

Okay!

> worst aspect is the large amount of marketing and advertising these platforms receive

Virtually no one is advertising prostitution or human trafficking — certainly not to the degree that gambling is being advertised.

By extension, it seems we can agree prostitution and human trafficking are not nearly as severe a problem as gambling.

Re: Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

#144

Post by genericacct »

bentt wrote: post #53

The fact that ESPN itself has a sports betting app tells you all you need to know about the perversion of sports now that gambling is blessed by the government. I think I can live with the legalization of sports betting if there are strong restrictions against marketing and advertising. If you want to ruin your life that's your decision, and you can always just take the same amount of money and bet it on the stock ma…

It's worse than bad, I have seen betting ads and placement in content that regular advertisers would not touch with a 10 feet pole, e.g. in pirated broadcasts

Re: Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

#145

Post by gopher_space »

cardiffspaceman wrote: post #78
HDThoreaun wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bookmakers can always lay the odds so that there’s equal money on each side. Then they’re just taking a 10% rake with zero risk. If they start getting killed by pros they’ll just move to the low risk strategy.

I wonder if street bookies make money “for someone” by somehow bringing lending in house. It would be the pair of activities that would be profitable. But they wouldn’t have to be that good at bookmaking.

From my perspective the last thing an amateur bookie wants is an outstanding balance either way.

Your only way of dealing with a bad debt is banning the person and letting the other amateur bookies know about it.

Re: Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

#146

Post by tombert »

Infinity315 wrote: post #125
tombert wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Take stock option contract trading out with it.

Stock options have legitimate uses. Like all tools, it can be misused. Stock options can be used as a tool to hedge against risk.

I know, but I think that they're overwhelmingly used for glorified gambling.

It wouldn't bother me if it was just hedge funds or big corporations or multibillionaires who played with contracts, it bothers me that regular people do it too, and the average John Doe simply doesn't have the same multi-million-dollar option pricing algorithms that Goldman Sachs does. At that point, it feels like it's big corporations leeching money away from poorer people who don't know better.

Full disclosure, I do play with options occasionally, but I have mostly stopped, and I treat it like a casino, or as you mentioned to hedge against risk.

Re: Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

#147

Post by NickC25 »

sickofparadox wrote: post #131
adw wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the players aren't employed by their teams, provided with healthcare and pensions and all the rest, then it absolutely is. The NCAA (for revenue sports) is a scam and everyone involved with any of it is morally bankrupt.

>If the players aren't employed by their teams, provided with healthcare and pensions and all the rest, then it absolutely is. Why? They are being paid, fed, housed, and educated in exchange for playing sports at nearly the highest level. Where is the injustice? They live lives of opulence and leisure that kings of previous ages could not even dream of.

They aren't being educated.

Outside of Stamford and the Ivies, I'd wager that most players, especially in football, are taking easy classes (and in some cases having tests taken for them) and even then, things are quite easy for them. They aren't taking physics, economics, etc.. that actually prepare students for the real world. There's not enough time for that.

I saw it for myself at a big D1 football program. You think at a school like Texas or Alabama, a school that worships football above all else, would let their athletes be preoccupied with school? Come on now.

Re: Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

#148

Post by ssharp »

georgeecollins wrote: post #123
bentt wrote: post #53

The fact that ESPN itself has a sports betting app tells you all you need to know about the perversion of sports now that gambling is blessed by the government. I think I can live with the legalization of sports betting if there are strong restrictions against marketing and advertising. If you want to ruin your life that's your decision, and you can always just take the same amount of money and bet it on the stock ma…

It has a terrible potential to corrupt sport. When you can bet a lot of money on how long a college players plays, or how many points they get in a particular game, what's to stop them from having a relative make a bet and they just fake a cramp? The stock market is heavily regulated. I don't think you should ban sports betting, because like many vices it's easier to control if it is legal. According to Nate Silver,…

Oddly enough, several professional sports gamblers were aware of a NBA referee manipulating game from their data analysis, well before the NBA became aware of it.

That was probably 10+ years ago and I suspect data analysis by the leagues is much stronger now. Still an insane line that needs to be walked between the leagues getting revenue from the sportsbooks and gambling not impacting that play.

Re: Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

#149

Post by adw »

SoftTalker wrote: post #140
adw wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

22% of revenue, not employees, colleges don't accept employer liability. This settlement should be rejected as unconscionable. Public universities (and private universities which actually care about education!) would be well advised to get out of the business of running professional sports teams, I think.

Big universities make way too much money from sports to ever get out of the business. Not only direct revenue but also alumni and sponsor donations.

The university sector (both public and private) is a mess and this is one of the many, many ways in which that is true.

Re: Pro bettors disguising themselves as gambling addicts

#150

Post by hirvi74 »

thijson wrote: post #126
hirvi74 wrote: post #117

Much like many substance use disorders, I am inclined the to believe the substance is merely a self-medication technique for a deeper rooted issue. I am curious what about the gambling makes it so addictive? I refuse to believe that people are addicted solely because of bro-science's elementary understanding dopamine. What makes people continue despite the negative consequences in their lives? Is it the hope? The hop…

I don't understand what makes gambling addictive, but I do remember studies done on cats that we read about in psych 101. Cats had implants surgically implanted to their pleasure centers of the brain. A lever would trigger the implant to give them pleasure. If the lever gives pleasure everytime it's pressed, the cat would get bored of it. If the reward was random, the cat would sit there and press it all day. I think…

Interesting. I am going to try and find that study when I get off work. Based on your summary, it kind of reminds me of the "Rat Park^1" study a bit.

I can and cannot believe people could be so addicted to gambling that they voluntarily wallow in their excrement. I used to have a family friend that worked a company that owned and operated many of those gambling machines. He said that they are basically all rigged (go figure). You know, kind of like claw machines -- it doesn't matter how well you aim. The claw's grip strength is algorithmically controlled. Thus, the claw give the illusion that one was actually close to snagging the prize.

You are correct that gambling is an addiction that can ruin lives. Well, I guess all addictions can or else such issues wouldn't be classified as addictions. However, in the gambling addiction thread on here a few days ago. Someone cited some stat that stated that gambling addiction is the addiction with the highest rate of suicide. I did not verify that information, so take that for what it is worth, but I can believe it.

[1] https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/what-does-rat-park-tea...

Post reply on HN