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The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

ds9soft.com

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Re: The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

#21

Post by wglb »

wk_end wrote: post #12

Apologies for donning my grumpy old man hat. I like CL as much as the average dev who's dabbled with it on weekends but can't find anyone to pay me to use it, but...this essay really adds so little to the conversation about it. There's not an awful lot explicitly wrong in it per se, but people have been writing these little puff pieces on their blogs about Lisp for (at least) twenty years now. This checks all the usu…

Yes, it is a bit grumpy.

I am in the process of writing an example of

> "Ten Years Building a Major Piece of Software in Lisp"

Coming to a ShowHN soon.

Re: The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

#22

Post by exe34 »

RandomCitizen12 wrote: post #13

> How long before Copilot is able to write all the code any Go developer now writes by hand? A long time ago I read someone saying "Lisp is the only language where I spend more time thinking than typing". Recently, when I was telling ChatGPT what logic I wanted written on what data structures, I realized the same was true about having an LLM write any other language.

they clearly haven't tried Haskell!

Re: The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

#23

Post by anonzzzies »

wk_end wrote: post #12

Apologies for donning my grumpy old man hat. I like CL as much as the average dev who's dabbled with it on weekends but can't find anyone to pay me to use it, but...this essay really adds so little to the conversation about it. There's not an awful lot explicitly wrong in it per se, but people have been writing these little puff pieces on their blogs about Lisp for (at least) twenty years now. This checks all the usu…

I guess I need to write that then. It's not magic, it's not all powerful etc, but, for me/us, it is better than anything else that is there. Our company library is basically a dsl that grew over decades and it is a pleasure. I work with other tech and it basically really sucks balls compared to CL/SBCL/emacs. I am sorry for anyone who missed out on this, but it is not a religion; use what works for you.

Re: The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

#24

Post by Lyngbakr »

wk_end wrote: post #12

Apologies for donning my grumpy old man hat. I like CL as much as the average dev who's dabbled with it on weekends but can't find anyone to pay me to use it, but...this essay really adds so little to the conversation about it. There's not an awful lot explicitly wrong in it per se, but people have been writing these little puff pieces on their blogs about Lisp for (at least) twenty years now. This checks all the usu…

    OP hasn't even really used Lisp in anger, yet
This struck me, too. My current hobby project is in Go and I'm really quite enjoying it. It doesn't feel "soulless" to me at all. That said, I'm well aware that my opinion may be different if I had to write Go for a living instead of just for fun.

Re: The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

#25

Post by ds9soft »

pjmlp wrote: post #10

I wish this kind of comparisons actually would look beyond Emacs, into Allegro, LispWorks, Clozure CL.

Yes. I used Clozure CL before and now I use Lem as editor. But I stick to SBCL (at least for now, though I can see myself using CCL again when it supports ARM64). As for LispWorks, I installed the Personal edition and played with it. I can't afford it (actually I can, but I have to find a reason other than tinkering).

Re: The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

#26

Post by allknowingfrog »

A PG article about "doing what you love" was recently shared and discussed on HN [1], and I think a lot of the same logic applies. The nature of a job is that someone is paying you to do what they want you to do. If we're talking about what makes you happy in your free time, then sure, learn any obscure language that appeals to you. If you find something cool that you can do in CL and nowhere else, that's an amazing opportunity. If you just happen to think that life is too short to use a practical, established language, then I don't want career advice from you.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41687176

Re: The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

#27

Post by kubectl_h »

wk_end wrote: post #12

Apologies for donning my grumpy old man hat. I like CL as much as the average dev who's dabbled with it on weekends but can't find anyone to pay me to use it, but...this essay really adds so little to the conversation about it. There's not an awful lot explicitly wrong in it per se, but people have been writing these little puff pieces on their blogs about Lisp for (at least) twenty years now. This checks all the usu…

I enjoyed using elisp and common lisp for the years that I spent in emacs and stumpwm but it always made me chuckle when I'd read some comment or blog post proclaiming that learning lisp is somehow like ascending to a higher plane of developer consciousness. I feel like that sentiment was really high around the late 00's and early 10's for some reason, but also it may have been because that's when I used it most.

Re: The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

#28

Post by ds9soft »

Lyngbakr wrote: post #24
wk_end wrote: post #12

Apologies for donning my grumpy old man hat. I like CL as much as the average dev who's dabbled with it on weekends but can't find anyone to pay me to use it, but...this essay really adds so little to the conversation about it. There's not an awful lot explicitly wrong in it per se, but people have been writing these little puff pieces on their blogs about Lisp for (at least) twenty years now. This checks all the usu…

OP hasn't even really used Lisp in anger, yet This struck me, too. My current hobby project is in Go and I'm really quite enjoying it. It doesn't feel "soulless" to me at all. That said, I'm well aware that my opinion may be different if I had to write Go for a living instead of just for fun.

I have used CL before, but not in anger.

Re: The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

#29

Post by ivanlinux »

This is exactly why I exclusively write Perl, C, and Lisp, simply they are fun to write, and provide me with the capabilities to feel powerful as a developer. Most software written these days lands in languages that make me feel like a drone, endlessly fighting a system in place or a pattern for some arbitrary theoretical gain that is never realized in the real world anyways, OOP, Type-Systems, FP, whatever, why would I willingly commit myself to someone else's idea of what code should look like?

On side note, they say that 80% of developers are unhappy, do we think that languages have a big part in this?

https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2024/

Re: The Liberating Experience of Common Lisp

#30

Post by leprechaun1066 »

wk_end wrote: post #12

Apologies for donning my grumpy old man hat. I like CL as much as the average dev who's dabbled with it on weekends but can't find anyone to pay me to use it, but...this essay really adds so little to the conversation about it. There's not an awful lot explicitly wrong in it per se, but people have been writing these little puff pieces on their blogs about Lisp for (at least) twenty years now. This checks all the usu…

Shinmera recently talked about porting SBCL to the switch: https://reader.tymoon.eu/article/437
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