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The Netherlands has returned some stolen artifacts to Indonesia

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: The Netherlands has returned some stolen artifacts to Indonesia

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know some of the museums aren’t the right place to keep some of the artifacts, but I also feel that in general they have been good stewards. My counterpoint is wondering how many would have been destroyed by ISIS or civil unrest in some of the less stable regions of the world.

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Sounds good, we're using it just for show anyway. How would you like it delivered?

Re: The Netherlands has returned some stolen artifacts to Indonesia

#22

Nice! I think about this every time i'm in an English museum

I know some of the museums aren’t the right place to keep some of the artifacts, but I also feel that in general they have been good stewards. My counterpoint is wondering how many would have been destroyed by ISIS or civil unrest in some of the less stable regions of the world.

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Re: The Netherlands has returned some stolen artifacts to Indonesia

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know some of the museums aren’t the right place to keep some of the artifacts, but I also feel that in general they have been good stewards. My counterpoint is wondering how many would have been destroyed by ISIS or civil unrest in some of the less stable regions of the world.

There's 2 separate Hague conventions establishing an international framework for how to protect heritage in conflict regions. They're not perfect (like pretty much any convention), but they address all the basic issues like sheltering artifacts abroad and dedicating military units to prevent destruction. Also, western institutions have not been ideal stewards themselves, historically. The Pergamon kept the Ishtar gat…

Speaking of the Pergamon Museum I think the actual Pergamon Altar might be better off back in the actual site of Pergamon - now in Turkey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pergamon_Altar

Re: The Netherlands has returned some stolen artifacts to Indonesia

#25

Stuff the British Stole is a really good podcast (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) that explores the difficulties of these situations: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/stuff-the-british-sto... Things like: - The current government in power may not allow the artifacts to be returned to the original people, but will accept them and place them in the national museum. In many of these cases; the original people…

The UK government occasionally does give things back on the understanding that they can be returned for a bit when required... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone

I don't really see how that example is "giv[ing] things back." That stone is still the property of the British government and kept continuously on British territory.

Re: The Netherlands has returned some stolen artifacts to Indonesia

#26

Stuff the British Stole is a really good podcast (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) that explores the difficulties of these situations: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/stuff-the-british-sto... Things like: - The current government in power may not allow the artifacts to be returned to the original people, but will accept them and place them in the national museum. In many of these cases; the original people…

The UK government occasionally does give things back on the understanding that they can be returned for a bit when required... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone

The Stone of Scone getting returned to Scotland is a bad example. Sure, it’s symbolic, but Scotland is in the UK and so this was really just moving something around within the UK borders.

Re: The Netherlands has returned some stolen artifacts to Indonesia

#29
post #13

Stuff the British Stole is a really good podcast (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) that explores the difficulties of these situations: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/stuff-the-british-sto... Things like: - The current government in power may not allow the artifacts to be returned to the original people, but will accept them and place them in the national museum. In many of these cases; the original people…

- the artifact is likely to be seen by significantly more people and serves a much greater purpose to expose/educate those people (from other cultures) to/about the culture from which it came

We should be thankful the British stole it!

Re: The Netherlands has returned some stolen artifacts to Indonesia

#30
The labeling of things in museums as "stolen" is lacking, IMO. In some cases, yes... straight up looted items are in museums. In other cases, though, the items could easily have ended up lost to time (or political, economic, social turmoil) if they had not been taken and put in museums outside of the places where they originated. Additionally some of these places would not have had the means to care for antiquities back in the day.

The discussion is important and the history of how these museums came to have the items they do is fraught with depredation but that is't the whole story. I feel like there is nuance around how many of these items that have ended up in the museums of the West and that nuance is paved over by labeling everything as stolen.

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