YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup • Hacker News Board

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#201

Post by sobellian » Tue, Oct 01, 2024, 2:39 PM UTC

CharlieDigital wrote: post #68

I've been in the VC-backed startup space as a lead/principal engineer or technical advisor for the last 4 years. In that time, I've worked at 1 startup that closed a $100m C, one that closed a multi-million B, one that recently closed a $30m C, and one that started with a $8m seed. I've started my own startup and worked with founders of other startups on the side advising on the technical side (and once in a while bu…

I'd say it matters. Life becomes so much harder if you have to justify why your seed/pre-seed startup has a unique advantage, but you're just ripping off the competition. Maybe you have unique hustle. That's a fairly incredible claim - especially in a crowded space like AI.

I think it's at least a warning klaxon. We're entering this market by copying a competitor (not just in UI/UX, but literally byte-for-byte). How are we going to beat them? How do we ensure the same does not happen to us?

AI-powered coding is such a ridiculously crowded arena. I would be pretty apprehensive. Even if I was dead-set on doing an AI startup, I would still look for a different market.

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#202

Post by nmoura » Tue, Oct 01, 2024, 2:40 PM UTC

lawgimenez wrote: post #120

CharlieDigital wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a problem to be resolved by their legal counsel and often not even a fatal problem (e.g. work out some licensing agreement). The first job of a startup is to understand how to solve a valuable problem. If the team is solving a valuable problem, they can figure out how they want to navigate even violation of licenses. Everything else can be negotiated.

[flagged]

It doesn't seem to me, by the contrary. They're describing the harsh reality whether one likes it or not. As it's stated about reality in the Cambridge dictionary: "the state of things as they are, rather than as they are imagined to be". But it seems a good idea to rethink how we use the word "success", even if it's "success" at the eyes of many.

I like the story "The Honest Farmer", retold by Ella Lyman Cabot, I found in "The Moral Compass", pg. 262, edited by William J. Bennett, which introduces the story with this: "The dictionary defines integrity as 'an uncompromising adherence to a moral code' and says the word traces its origins to a Latin term meaning 'untouched'. Here is integrity, untouched and unshaken by altered circumstances."

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#203

Post by Kon-Peki » Tue, Oct 01, 2024, 2:41 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #109

jessriedel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I sorta figured YC was more like Harvard in that the brand and selectivity are super important. Isn’t this eating the seed corn?

Harvard admits 2,000 students every year, so it isn't all that different. The reputation is always built/sustained by the outliers rather than the average graduate.

Harvard admits 2,000 undergraduates every year, but it's actually a very large school, granting just about 10,000 degrees per year. The annual commencement ceremony in Harvard Yard only goes through the graduates school-by-school; once dismissed all the graduates decamp to school-specific ceremonies all around campus, where they get their names called and walk across the stage to receive the handshake and (empty) envelope. Perhaps more like YC than you think?

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#204

Post by dncornholio » Tue, Oct 01, 2024, 2:41 PM UTC

kevin_nisbet wrote: post #144

kibwen wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is not that they stole the idea, it's that they literally just took an open-source codebase and filed off the serial numbers to claim it as their own proprietary work, and they did so in the most comically inept way possible. From the OP: PearAI offers an AI coding editor. The startup’s founder Duke Pan has openly said that it’s a cloned copy of another AI editor called Continue, which was covered un…

The funny? thing is, this isn't the only YC company I've seen do this.

Isn't the whole point of VC just throw money at the wall and see what sticks?

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#205

Post by shombaboor » Tue, Oct 01, 2024, 2:48 PM UTC

dcchambers wrote: post #180

kunley wrote: post #86

"Pear Enterprise License, which Pan admitted was written by ChatGPT." I hope it's not a new trend: doing some unethical sh*t and justifying that "AI" did that. I guess handing over creation of a legal document to chatgpt, done in a narrowly selected YC startup which is supposed to be smartest founders around, that's insulting the intelligence of everyone, isn't it? Edit: forgot to underline: they had all the legal an…

The good news is "dawg I chatgpt'd the license" is not a valid legal defense. Any good lawyer would eat them alive in court if it came to that.

i also think that's why this story sorta went viral, it blended the worst aspects of AI in the tech popular culture by bragging about theft and saying dawg unironically

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#206

Post by TiredOfLife » Tue, Oct 01, 2024, 2:49 PM UTC

jazz9k wrote: post #2

This is completely allowed under the apache open source license. I'm not sure why people are so upset about it. If you don't want this to happen, release software under a different licensing model.

Both Apache and MIT require attribution. They removed it.

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#207

Post by typeofhuman » Tue, Oct 01, 2024, 2:51 PM UTC

The article missed another huge aspect. The founder falsely claimed PearAI had "100+ contributors"[0]. Those contributions were to the original repo not to theirs.

Combine this with their other actions and it really looks like they're scammers. Garry Tan's downplaying denial remarks make it look to me like they're trying to save face at YC - since it looks like they've been duped.

0: https://x.com/CodeFryingPan/status/1840248626284789956

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#208

Post by TiredOfLife » Tue, Oct 01, 2024, 2:51 PM UTC

burcs wrote: post #26

Isn't this how open-source works. Sure it sucks. However creators can pick a different license, like AGPL, if they don't want something like this to happen. I saw someone on x/twitter post this: Neovim is a fork of Vim which is a fork of Vi. They were pretty clear in their repo that they were forked from Continue. I get that they were rather lackadaisical about the licensing, but that's kind of their brand, and they…

>Isn't this how open-source works.

No, it doesn't! Open source comes with licenses that have various requirements.

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#209

Post by drpossum » Tue, Oct 01, 2024, 2:51 PM UTC

tightbookkeeper wrote: post #196

drpossum wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being polite will get you yelled at, as is happening right now, and should not be surprising. Legally there may be nothing and they are welcome to ruin their reputation and suffer the consequences. I find it baffling in conversations I keep having with people that someone thinks that because something is legally permissible, then it is acceptable. It's the same vein of when people cry "free speech" when they said…

Had me in the first half. If free speech is only strict legal protection with no cultural backing then you still can’t reasonably express contrary views and it’s worthless.

So the fact that it is culturally taboo to, say, use racial obscenities in public discourse (not directed at any particular person) means you think the first amendment is worthless? Because that's a deeply hamfisted belief but is in fact, the world we live in.

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#210

Post by mlhpdx » Tue, Oct 01, 2024, 2:56 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #118

drawkward wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are so inept that copying someone else's codebase wholesale is what makes you a viable company, then perhaps you aren't worthy of investing in. Unless, the investor is just trying to fund the most ruthless, least ethical, win-at-all-costs type of people, which as I type this seems like a sad but unsurprising move.

Unless, the investor is just trying to fund the most ruthless, least ethical, win-at-all-costs type of people Just, Devil's Advocate. But isn't that kind of a smart strategy? Not saying it's "nice", nor even how I would do things. But I'd imagine many, many people get excessively wealthy investing in this fashion.

I’ve never looked into it deeply, but as I understand it the opposite is true. I’ve read in passing that statistically the most successful sales people are kind, insightful and find ways to align with their customers best interests. Likewise, I’ve also read in passing that economies with cultures of respect and collaboration far outperform ones that are very competitive.

Maybe someone has more information about those topics that me?