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Is English a “creole Language”?

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu

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Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#141

Post by tshaddox »

inanutshellus wrote: post #76
geocar wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once upon a time I was walking with a friend around Amsterdam and a man walked up to me and asked me where something was (a nearby restaurant), I answered in English with directions and he thanked me, then a moment later this exchange happened: - Wait! You can speak Netherlands? - No. Sorry. - But you can! I am speaking it! - No you're not! You're speaking English! He just blinked and walked off, probably assuming I…

Very much reminds me of a Kids in the Hall skit from ages ago. Two guys are at a party, one says "hello", the other says -- in perfect English -- "Sorry I don't understand you, I don't speak English. please don't beat me up." The first guy assumes it's a joke and plays along until he gets annoyed at the perfect accent and responses ("no really, I don't understand what you're saying, nor what I'm saying, I've just pra…

I wonder if that’s before or after the classic Family Guy gag:

https://youtu.be/cFN46vwg0M0?si=ycF5-duHXKBXoOZ1

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#142

Post by schwartzworld »

tshaddox wrote: post #141
inanutshellus wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much reminds me of a Kids in the Hall skit from ages ago. Two guys are at a party, one says "hello", the other says -- in perfect English -- "Sorry I don't understand you, I don't speak English. please don't beat me up." The first guy assumes it's a joke and plays along until he gets annoyed at the perfect accent and responses ("no really, I don't understand what you're saying, nor what I'm saying, I've just pra…

I wonder if that’s before or after the classic Family Guy gag: https://youtu.be/cFN46vwg0M0?si=ycF5-duHXKBXoOZ1

Kids in the hall ended 7 years before family guy premiered.

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#143

Post by ghayes »

schwartzworld wrote: post #142
tshaddox wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if that’s before or after the classic Family Guy gag: https://youtu.be/cFN46vwg0M0?si=ycF5-duHXKBXoOZ1

Kids in the hall ended 7 years before family guy premiered.

They picked up a new season https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11921588/

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#144

Post by oefnak »

iwontberude wrote: post #133
readthenotes1 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to a trip to Poland I listen to some language tapes and learn how to say "I don't understand Polish" in polish (something like "nya rezumium popolski"). Almost everybody understood English and finally when I ran into somebody who didn't and used that Polish phrase, I realized I could have just said in English "I don't understand Polish" and it actually would have been clearer communication.

I don’t understand why it would have been clearer to use a language they didn’t understand. Actually a lot of comments under this article aren’t making a lot of sense. A lot of claims of of paradox where I don’t see it.

By saying something in their language, you imply that you do speak a little bit of Polish.

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#145

Post by indigo945 »

fch42 wrote: post #124
trealira wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're saying the difference is between "played" and "have played." The difference is more distinguished in other verbs, like "ate" vs "have eaten." The word "ate" is the past tense, and "eaten" is the participle. And it's different in that "have" implies some sort of connection to the present. You wouldn't say "When I was a kid, I have played a lot of video games." You'd say "When I was a kid, I played a lo…

With respect to past tense, a "common" thing in english appears to be that the imperfect of a verb is the same word as the past particilpe of that verb. So "played" can be the imperfect tense itself, or the participle of perfect tense in "have played". In German, this doesn't happen. Imperfect tense is often formed by using a "-te" ending to the verb (so "spiel(en)" -> "spielte"), while the past participle prepends "…

German does not have this feature! In German, there is no difference in meaning between "Ich spielte Tennis" and "Ich habe Tennis gespielt". (The difference is in register, "Ich spielte Tennis" is more formal.)

In English, in contrast, there is a clear difference in usage between, say, "I was playing tennis while my kids were in school", and "I have played tennis while my kids were in school".

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#146

Post by indigo945 »

geocar wrote: post #86
indigo945 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very much debatable. Only around one in four English words is Germanic in origin, whereas half of English words are Latinic or Romanic. [1] Some properties of English's grammar are also more similar to Romance languages than Germanic ones. For example, whereas Germanic languages only mark tense on verbs, English verbs (like Spanish verbs) are marked with aspect in addition to tense: there is a distinction bet…

> Germanic languages only mark tense on verbs, English verbs (like Spanish verbs) are marked with aspect in addition to tense: What exactly do you mean by "aspect"? > there is a distinction between "I played tennis"/"I have played tennis"/"I was playing tennis". Sure: -- (I) played (Tennis) ~~ jugué -- (When I) played (Tennis) ~~ jugaba -- (When I've) played (Tennis) ~~ jugado English (like German) might say they nee…

I am referring to aspect in the sense that it's used in linguistics [1].

I'm honestly getting a lot of responses here from people who clearly don't have a good grasp of linguistics, but you take the cake by composing a long-form response without at least bothering to Google the terms I have used.

    I think most of the time  
    people talk about the  
    "rules" of a language, we're
    not really talking about  
    something that will help  
    acquire the language (or be  
    better understood): we're  
    really just yapping about  
    geography and time.
Language families are not just formed across geography and time. Genetically, Hindi is closer to French than it is to Tibetan. People move, you know.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_aspect

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#147

Post by indigo945 »

riahi wrote: post #134
derdi wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent was specifically referring to "I was playing", which in German would not be expressed using only forms of the verb. You would have to use an adverb, as in "ich spielte gerade ". Or you could noun the verb: "ich war am Spielen".

Nit: isn’t “playing” itself “nouning the verb” via a gerund / participle construct? I actually am not sure of the subtleties on this grammatical point.

"Ich war am Spielen" is not really Standard German. It's a West German/Ripuarian dialect form that people from that area sometimes use when conversing in Standard German. But yes, it does communicate the progressive aspect in the same manner that "I was playing" does in English. I agree that "nouning" the verb is an arbitrary distinction.

Even if you want to give this one to German, English also has the prospective aspect, which is missing in German (prospective "I'm going to play tennis", vs. perfective "I will play tennis").

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#148

Post by oefnak »

geocar wrote: post #86
indigo945 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very much debatable. Only around one in four English words is Germanic in origin, whereas half of English words are Latinic or Romanic. [1] Some properties of English's grammar are also more similar to Romance languages than Germanic ones. For example, whereas Germanic languages only mark tense on verbs, English verbs (like Spanish verbs) are marked with aspect in addition to tense: there is a distinction bet…

> Germanic languages only mark tense on verbs, English verbs (like Spanish verbs) are marked with aspect in addition to tense: What exactly do you mean by "aspect"? > there is a distinction between "I played tennis"/"I have played tennis"/"I was playing tennis". Sure: -- (I) played (Tennis) ~~ jugué -- (When I) played (Tennis) ~~ jugaba -- (When I've) played (Tennis) ~~ jugado English (like German) might say they nee…

You don't know what words are based on pauses, but whether you can rearrange them in a different sentence.

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#149

Post by tomcam »

geocar wrote: post #72
mise_en_place wrote: post #63

It's closer to Dutch or German. I had no issue understanding transit signage in Amsterdam. The difficult words are calques and idioms that don't directly translate, i.e. opponthoud . Exit is uitgang , literally an "outgoing". Entrance is ingang , ingoing.

Once upon a time I was walking with a friend around Amsterdam and a man walked up to me and asked me where something was (a nearby restaurant), I answered in English with directions and he thanked me, then a moment later this exchange happened: - Wait! You can speak Netherlands? - No. Sorry. - But you can! I am speaking it! - No you're not! You're speaking English! He just blinked and walked off, probably assuming I…

Surreal. Is English your native language?

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#150

Post by tomcam »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #94
larkost wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a kid my boychoir hosted a choir from Estonia (this was before the fall of the Iron Curtain, so this was a big deal), and I remember when I was trying to help out back-stage at their concert and one of the Estonian boys needed help, but the only thing he could say was "I don't speak English", in a perfect midwestern accent (the Estonian choir director had drilled his entire choir on that one phrase). The c…

Prior to a trip to Poland I listen to some language tapes and learn how to say "I don't understand Polish" in polish (something like "nya rezumium popolski"). Almost everybody understood English and finally when I ran into somebody who didn't and used that Polish phrase, I realized I could have just said in English "I don't understand Polish" and it actually would have been clearer communication.

I learned the same phrase in perfect BBC Polish and it backfired. I said it so well that the Poles just ignored it and continued to speak in Polish. Then I ended up with a Polish girlfriend back in the states and learned real fast. She was gorgeous.
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