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Is English a “creole Language”?

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu

21–30 of 166 posts

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#21
post #19
post #18

[flagged]

> it has absorbed loan words from Romance languages Isn't a Creole defined by its simplified grammar rather than by the sources of its vocabulary?

No, that's a pidgin language. Creoles often develop out of pidgin languages but have full grammar and vocabularies.

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#22
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we won’t even claim to tell you what the definition of “word” is! What's your best attempt? :-)

\s\w+\s ;)

  cljs.user> (re-seq #"\s\w+\s" "やり直して")
  nil
Joking aside, is it common to use regular expressions? Seems like the method only works for languages with spaces. I think a more sophisticated lexer may be necessary, but are there are non-regex, "fast approximations" that work across most languages? This is a problem that I have not tried solving before.

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#24
post #19
post #18

[flagged]

> it has absorbed loan words from Romance languages Isn't a Creole defined by its simplified grammar rather than by the sources of its vocabulary?

No, it's neither. A creole is defined by its origins: it's a complete language that has developed out of a pidgin.

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#25
post #6
post #2

Creole is both a sociohistoric and linguistic term. The fact that the linguistic attributes are difficult to put boundaries on is extremely common for linguists: we won’t even claim to tell you what the definition of “word” is! As for whether English is a Creole, it’s important to understand the motivation for Creolistics at its origin. It started, and continues, as an effort to legitimize a set of languages that bef…

Why don't just define a new word? I mean you're linguists! :D Pseudo-Creole, a language that's technically a Creole, but doesn't fit the sociohistoic context. I think, it would be funny if a word for giving specific languages legitimacy is used to define a language that had more legitimacy to begin with.

Post-creole

I expect that a creole language will evolve over centuries into something that is less and less considered as a creole when compared with more recent creole languages.

I think it's more useful to consider "creolization events" in the history of a language rather than a blanket "creole/non-creole" attribute

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit like the old saying, "All models are wrong, some models are useful." The concept of a "word" is useful in everyday language, particularly in English -- it's host language, unsurprisingly enough -- and (probably) other Indo-European languages. However, in a more precise context, it breaks down because of edge cases. For example, "words" in agglutinative languages[1] (e.g., Turkish) act very differently from…

In Chinese, it's very difficult to define word boundaries. Each character is a syllable, with a particular pronunciation and a constellation of meanings, usually closely related to one another. There are very common combinations of characters that appear together, which one could define as words. However, often, you could just as easily view the individual characters as words, or the combination as a word. In some ca…

I should note that typically discussions of language are more fruitful around spoken (or signed) languages rather than writing. Writing is an artificial formal system, and as such sometimes has aspects which are much more socilogiclaly determined than spoken language, which tends to evolve more freely.

Also, the problems you raise here are mostly just as applicable to English, though perhaps for somewhat fewer words. Is a "walkie-talkie" one word, or two? How about "unmarried"? The un- prefix has a distinct meaning on its own, even if it never appears alone, after all. Or how about "can't"? Technically it's a contraction of "can not", and those words do sometimes appear separately as well, even in this same meaning.

Re: Is English a “creole Language”?

#30
You can argue either way, because "creole" to too vaguely defined. The term was invented to cover a set of languages that had interesting historical and structural similarities, but it turns out to be hard to establish the boundaries of the set. I think it's unfair to the researchers to politicize it as some "post-colonial" writers have been doing.
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