Those are great points! Another related law is from queuing theory: waiting time goes to infinity when utilization approaches 100%. You need your processes/machines/engineers to have some slack otherwise some tasks will wait forever.
Too much efficiency makes everything worse (2022)
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Re: Too much efficiency makes everything worse (2022)
#52This reminds me of Eli Goldratt's quote: "Tell me how you measure me, I will tell you how I behave."
Corollary: "If you do not measure me, I will not behave"
Re: Too much efficiency makes everything worse (2022)
#53And that's leaving out Jevon's paradox, where increasing efficiency in the use of some scarce resource sometimes/often increases its consumption, by making the unit price of the dependent thing affordable and increasing its demand. For example, gasoline has limited demand if it requires ten liters to go one km, but very high demand at 1 L/10km, even at the same price per liter.
The trick is as always to find out the XY problem. What they really need may be way easier for you to implement than what they actually asked for.
Re: Too much efficiency makes everything worse (2022)
#54Those are great points! Another related law is from queuing theory: waiting time goes to infinity when utilization approaches 100%. You need your processes/machines/engineers to have some slack otherwise some tasks will wait forever.
Interesting. My gut reaction is that this is true in reverse: infinite wait time leads to 100% utilization. However, I feel like you can also have 100% utilization with any queue length if input=output. Is that theory just a result of a first order approximation or am I missing something?
Re: Too much efficiency makes everything worse (2022)
#55Among his notable accomplishments, he and coauthors mathematically characterized the propagation of signals through deep neural networks via techniques from physics and statistics (mean field and free probability theory). Leading to arguably some of the most profound yet under-appreciated theoretical and experimental results in ML in the past decade. For example see “dynamical isometry” [1] and the evolution of those ideas which were instrumental in achieving convergence in very deep transformer models [2].
After reading this post and the examples given, in my eyes there is no question that this guy has an extraordinary intuition for optimization, spanning beyond the boundaries of ML and across the fabric of modern society.
We ought to recognize his technical background and raise this discussion above quibbles about semantics and definitions.
Let’s address the heart of his message, the very human and empathetic call to action that stands in the shadow of rapid technological progress:
> If you are a scientist looking for research ideas which are pro-social, and have the potential to create a whole new field, you should consider building formal (mathematical) bridges between results on overfitting in machine learning, and problems in economics, political science, management science, operations research, and elsewhere.
[1] Dynamical Isometry and a Mean Field Theory of CNNs: How to Train 10,000-Layer Vanilla Convolutional Neural Networks
http://proceedings.mlr.press/v80/xiao18a/xiao18a.pdf
[2] ReZero is All You Need: Fast Convergence at Large Depth
Re: Too much efficiency makes everything worse (2022)
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
That tracks. I worked at a lot of places/teams where anything but a P0 was something that would never be done.
Solution: everything is a P0!
Re: Too much efficiency makes everything worse (2022)
#57I don’t think the author understands what efficiency measures. All of the examples involve a bad proxy metric, or the flawed assumption that spending less improves the ratio of price to performance.
Re: Too much efficiency makes everything worse (2022)
#58I recognize the author Jascha as an incredibly brilliant ML researcher, formerly at Google Brain and now at Anthropic. Among his notable accomplishments, he and coauthors mathematically characterized the propagation of signals through deep neural networks via techniques from physics and statistics (mean field and free probability theory). Leading to arguably some of the most profound yet under-appreciated theoretical…
Re: Too much efficiency makes everything worse (2022)
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can add a measure of robustness to your optimization criteria. You can explicitly optimise for having enough slack in your utilisation to handle these unforeseen circumstances. For example, you can assign priorities to the loads on your systems, so that you can shed lower priority loads to create some slack for emergencies, without having to run your system idle under during lulls. I get what the article is tryin…
The problem is that people who agree to a task being low priority still expect it to be done in nine months and all of a sudden they become high priority if that doesn’t happen. So you’re fixing the micro economics of the queue but not the macro. Queues still suck when they fill up, even if they fill with last minute jobs.
Eg if you are running video conferencing software, and all of a sudden you are having bandwidth problems, you typically first want to drop some finer details in the video, and then you want to drop the audio feed.
In any case, if you dropped something, you leave it dropped, instead of picking it back up again a few seconds later. People don't care about past frames.
(However, queuing instead of outright dropping can still makes sense in this scenario, for any information that's younger than what human reaction times can perceive.)
Similarly in your scenario, you'd want to explicitly communicate to people what the expectations are. Perhaps you give out deep discounts for tasks that can be dropped (that's what eg some electriticy providers do), or you can give people 'insurance' where they get some monetary compensation if their task gets dropped. (You'd want to be careful how you design such a scheme, to avoid perverse incentives. But it's all doable.)
> So you’re fixing the micro economics of the queue but not the macro. Queues still suck when they fill up, even if they fill with last minute jobs.
I don't know, I had pretty positive experiences so far when eg I got bumped off a flight due to overbooking. The airline offered decent compensation.
Overbooking and bumping people off _improves_ the macro situation: despite the occasional compensation you have to pay, when unexpectedly everyone who booked actually showed up, overbooking still makes the airline extra money, and via competition this is transformed into lower ticket prices. Many people love lower airfares, and have shown a strong revealed preference of putting up with a lot of stuff eg RyanAir pulls as long as they get cheap tickets.
Re: Too much efficiency makes everything worse (2022)
#60I don't think it's unintuitive at all. 100% optimized means 100% without slack. No slack means any hitch at all will destroy you.