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Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

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Re: Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

#31

Post by bbor »

probably_wrong wrote: post #26
dr_dshiv wrote: post #12

[flagged]

I didn't downvote that comment when you commented, but I did it now. I don't come to HN to read the auto-generated output of a system. If I wanted that I could generate the result myself. I come to HN because I'm interested in what people in the community have to say. Showing up to a thread and saying "this is what an LLM generated" does not "gratify my intellectual curiosity" (per the FAQ) and, in my opinion, is not…

Oh damn do I love a metadiscussion! I appreciate you taking a stand for quality discourse, and I agree 100% on your basic motivations, but I think this is overly dismissive.

I'd say an audio discussion of this 100+ page dissertation is directly gratifying my intellectual curiosity, if I'm someone who is interested but doesn't have time to skim 100+ pages. And yeah anyone could figure out how to do such a thing, but a) most people don't even know it's possible yet, b) it presumably takes some amount of expertise and/or paid credits, and c) it saves people time. I'd consider it to be pretty similar to the usual archive link comments, in that way; anyone could probably find it themselves, but they might not even think to try.

Finally, if I had to quote any one part of the guidelines to support my "LLMs are welcome on HN" claim:

   Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity.
The guidelines don't mention any sort of institutionalized human-centric speciesism, so I'd say it's fair game. As my fave philosopher David Gunkel says: #RobotRights ;)

Obviously you're 100% correct to downvote a comment you think is distracting, I just thought I'd share my response on the broader question.

Re: Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

#32

Post by zeptian »

These kind of studies are dubious. The PhD report could have been generated by an LLM in about a day, and no one would know any better.

It works like this:

Take any hypothesis. And have a lot of verbiage around it with dubious experiments to "statistically" validate it. and write a giant report which would eventually turn into a book.

Steve Pinker and his likes excel in this kind of stuff. Psychology/Sociology and sometimes economics are filled with these sorts of studies.

It is more persuation than science.

And one could could argue that science itself is a certain kind of persuation.

Re: Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

#33

Post by kody »

scrapcode wrote: post #6

Having someone around you who either intentionally or unintentionally creates an environment that makes you want to, and therefor enjoy putting in the effort, is crucial. I am just finishing up The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle [0] and it has been an interesting short read. In a nutshell, it boils talent down deep practice, ignition, and master coaching. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/5771014-the-talent-co.…

Painfully accurate. Nothing is worse for me creatively when the work environment is paranoid, ass covering, disinterested in the work.

Re: Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

#34

Post by coreyp_1 »

ada1981 wrote: post #28
mwidell wrote: post #5

[flagged]

Cool! is this out of the box functionality for NotebookLM and if not what was your process? EDIT checked it out, looks like the audio deep dive feature. So wild.

I can't respond to the comment above, b/c it's already been flagged, but I just wanted to say that I was surprised with the quality of the output as well.

I know it's not magic. I know it's not sentient. I know it's not perfect. BUT IT'S IMPRESSIVE, and things like this demonstrate the huge leap that has happened in computing possibilities, and I'm frustrated that it gets flagged because some people are triggered by their "AI bad... human good" false dichotomy.

Thank you to the person who posted it.

Re: Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

#35

Post by jeffreyrogers »

zeptian wrote: post #32

These kind of studies are dubious. The PhD report could have been generated by an LLM in about a day, and no one would know any better. It works like this: Take any hypothesis. And have a lot of verbiage around it with dubious experiments to "statistically" validate it. and write a giant report which would eventually turn into a book. Steve Pinker and his likes excel in this kind of stuff. Psychology/Sociology and so…

Your comment adds nothing to the discussion, reveals your prejudice against social science, and could be copied and pasted anytime a non-rigorous subject comes up. I'm actually interested in criticisms of this work, but your comment doesn't even rise to that level.

Re: Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

#36

Post by zeptian »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #35
zeptian wrote: post #32

These kind of studies are dubious. The PhD report could have been generated by an LLM in about a day, and no one would know any better. It works like this: Take any hypothesis. And have a lot of verbiage around it with dubious experiments to "statistically" validate it. and write a giant report which would eventually turn into a book. Steve Pinker and his likes excel in this kind of stuff. Psychology/Sociology and so…

Your comment adds nothing to the discussion, reveals your prejudice against social science, and could be copied and pasted anytime a non-rigorous subject comes up. I'm actually interested in criticisms of this work, but your comment doesn't even rise to that level.

guilty as charged !

But Bohm's "On Creativity", to me presents a much deeper "philosophical" take on a) what is creativity and b) how to foster it. And I dont see it referenced in this text at all.

Again, since this is about persuation, it is what the reader wants to believe.

Re: Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

#37

Post by bbor »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #22
rasengan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why AI can in fact create things that haven’t yet been.

Sure, but so can pure randomness, for the same reason. It is creative in the literal sense, but not in the ineffable sense that humans tend to describe in humans.

Well put! Well, the first sentence is -- I think there's ample evidence that chatbots are creative in the same manner as humans, for the simple reason that they speak coherently. I'm sure we all remember pre-2023 chatbots, which were cute but ultimately produced gibberish; the current chatbots reach the same limits if given a hard enough task, which I think is fantastic evidence that they are ineffably creative before that limit.

In Chomsky's words, quoting Wilhelm von Humboldt:

  Language is a process of free creation; its laws and principles are fixed, but the manner in which the principles of generation are used is free and infinitely varied. Even the interpretation and use of words involves a process of free creation. The normal use of language and the acquisition of language depend on what Humboldt calls the fixed form of language, a system of generative processes that is rooted in the nature of the human mind and constrains but does not determine the free creations of normal intelligence or, at a higher and more original level, of the great writer or thinker... 
  The many modern critics who sense an inconsistency in the belief that free creation takes place within – presupposes, in fact – a system of constraints and governing principles are quite mistaken; unless, of course, they speak of “contradiction” in the loose and metaphoric sense of Schelling, when he writes that “without the contradiction of necessity and freedom not only philosophy but every nobler ambition of the spirit would sink to that death which is peculiar to those sciences in which that contradiction serves no function.” Without this tension between necessity and freedom, rule and choice, there can be no creativity, no communication, no meaningful acts at all.
- https://chomsky.info/language-and-freedom/

Re: Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

#38

Post by airstrike »

sbarre wrote: post #9
scrapcode wrote: post #6

Having someone around you who either intentionally or unintentionally creates an environment that makes you want to, and therefor enjoy putting in the effort, is crucial. I am just finishing up The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle [0] and it has been an interesting short read. In a nutshell, it boils talent down deep practice, ignition, and master coaching. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/5771014-the-talent-co.…

A good simple example: I don't like cooking alone. Cooking for my wife and me together? Love it..

There are six human needs, they say: certainty, variety (uncertainty), significance, love, growth and contribution

Cooking alone doesn't check the same boxes. It probably gives you only more "certainty" of being fed, but you're not craving more of that.

Cooking for you and your wife probably gives you some significance (you like being appreciated for making a nice meal), love and a sense of contribution. Way more satisfying!

Re: Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

#39

Post by mwidell »

coreyp_1 wrote: post #34
ada1981 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool! is this out of the box functionality for NotebookLM and if not what was your process? EDIT checked it out, looks like the audio deep dive feature. So wild.

I can't respond to the comment above, b/c it's already been flagged, but I just wanted to say that I was surprised with the quality of the output as well. I know it's not magic. I know it's not sentient. I know it's not perfect. BUT IT'S IMPRESSIVE, and things like this demonstrate the huge leap that has happened in computing possibilities, and I'm frustrated that it gets flagged because some people are triggered by…

Why did it get flagged? Is it not allowed to post links in comments? Or drive links specifically?

Re: Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Creativity (2014)

#40

Post by ada1981 »

coreyp_1 wrote: post #34
ada1981 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool! is this out of the box functionality for NotebookLM and if not what was your process? EDIT checked it out, looks like the audio deep dive feature. So wild.

I can't respond to the comment above, b/c it's already been flagged, but I just wanted to say that I was surprised with the quality of the output as well. I know it's not magic. I know it's not sentient. I know it's not perfect. BUT IT'S IMPRESSIVE, and things like this demonstrate the huge leap that has happened in computing possibilities, and I'm frustrated that it gets flagged because some people are triggered by…

Wild that I got a downvote for sharing my enthusiasm with the OP. The amount of unprocessed trauma and misery in this community is impressive.
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