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Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

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Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#141

Post by strken »

chongli wrote: post #58
onion2k wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But no one wins as long as Global Human Attention isn't given purpose. The problem is that "people working in Attention Capture fields" are the exact people who are winning, at least by the most common scoring mechanism of 'wealth'.

They're enriching their bank accounts just as they're impoverishing their spirits. On their deathbeds, no one ever says "gee, I wish I'd spent more time at the office." The same could be said for any other wealth-motivated exercise. If I have learned one thing in life it is this: money is, at best, a necessary evil. A means to an end. Pursuing it as an end in itself is an indication that we have strayed from the path…

I swear I am going to, on my deathbed, say "gee, I wish I'd spent more time at the office," just to stop this quote going around. In the last five years I've had a few conversations about regret with elderly relatives who have now passed away. None of them regretted going to work. My grandparents met at work. One regretted that she'd been a draftswoman rather than an engineer, but that's almost the exact opposite. I don't understand why people think doing good work that inspires pride and then getting paid for it is going to be some kind of horrible deathbed regret. It has literally never been a deathbed regret for anyone whose deathbed I have attended.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#142

Post by robocat »

jumping_frog wrote: post #113
have_faith wrote: post #79

People always reference 1984 but Orwell’s essay “Pleasure Spots” is probably more relevant to this subject: https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

I think there was a quote by a Nordic writer (possibly Hans Christian Andersen) in which he talked about how circuses and amusement parks keep people distracted and busy so we don't focus on important policy issues. https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220818-the-surprisingl... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

That references the Latin phrase:

  panem et circenses
Paragraph from a page describing it:

  It refers to a concept prevalent in ancient Rome, where the government would provide its citizens with free food and entertainment in the form of lavish spectacles, such as gladiator fights, chariot races, and theatrical performances. The phrase highlights the strategy employed by the ruling class to keep the population content and distracted from important political issues and matters of governance.
Orwell and Huxleys work are both centralised (authoritarian - you had to take your Soma) whereas our current risk is possibly more systematic and less conspirational.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#143

Post by ptero »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #130
tlb wrote: post #62

The sad thing is that none of it is very amusing. Current events twitter is more aggravating than amusing. We're aggravating ourselves to death.

[flagged]

While the situation may be grave it was usually much worse for the vast majority of the population.

People are aggravated and enraged by famine deaths precisely because they affect much smaller percentage of people than they used to, where death from hunger was common.

The debt and likely coming financial repression is a weaker form of coin debasement practiced regularly by many kings. And so on...

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#144

Post by moffkalast »

yldedly wrote: post #112
alexashka wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you know capable and smart people will keep having good values? 'Good' values don't exist, so we need not worry about that one :)

Then what do you mean when you say "make a difference"?

I think they mean the literal opposite of things staying the same, not the "helping people" idiom.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#145

Post by epicide »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #128
willguest wrote: post #83

Given that the vast majority of people go to work to earn money for businesses that exist either to exploit natural resources or appreciate in value in the eyes of an economic system that prioritizes increasing capital valuations above all else, including human dignity, long-term survival and the life of other species, I would say we're already there. Talking about a dystopian future is a convenient way to assuade ou…

> Given that the vast majority of people go to work to earn money for businesses that exist either to exploit natural resources ... Or for governments, doing government jobs that produce absolutely nothing of value and force people to waste a big chunk of their lives on administrative tasks...

Or for corporations that produce things of negative value and force people to waste a big chunk of their lives on administrative tasks.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#146

Post by throwaway2037 »

CalRobert wrote: post #123
portaouflop wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as long as Global Human Attention isn't given purpose We tried out the grand visions to improve the human condition with one great push in the 20th century- didn’t work out so well

The Green Revolution, vaccines, and space exploration have been pretty great.

Literacy too!

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#148

Post by amelius »

strken wrote: post #141
chongli wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're enriching their bank accounts just as they're impoverishing their spirits. On their deathbeds, no one ever says "gee, I wish I'd spent more time at the office." The same could be said for any other wealth-motivated exercise. If I have learned one thing in life it is this: money is, at best, a necessary evil. A means to an end. Pursuing it as an end in itself is an indication that we have strayed from the path…

I swear I am going to, on my deathbed, say "gee, I wish I'd spent more time at the office," just to stop this quote going around. In the last five years I've had a few conversations about regret with elderly relatives who have now passed away. None of them regretted going to work. My grandparents met at work. One regretted that she'd been a draftswoman rather than an engineer, but that's almost the exact opposite. I…

They should have said: "gee, I wish I spent more time influencing people into buying things they do not need".

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#149

Post by JKCalhoun »

082349872349872 wrote: post #63
anthk wrote: post #28

Brave New World and 1984 are books to avoid every extreme on politics, either left or right (put every Monopoly neocon fanboy, racist non-civic nationalist or burocratic socialist in there). 1984 looked scary, but BNW was hopeless. It exerced a much better control. The world of 1984 collapsed down itself.

What's wrong with BNW? Have you forgotten the islands?

Yeah, I have to re-read Brave New World because over the time since I have read it I have come to believe it was actually Utopian. The artists and others that could not conform were in fact given an island where like-minded artists could flourish.

Sometimes I think that's all we all want: to find a community of like-minded people we can live among.

Re: Amusing Ourselves to Death (2009)

#150

Post by epicide »

mixtureoftakes wrote: post #55

Most of us will read this and continue living our life exactly the same way as before …wake up

Wake up and... do what exactly? Tell others to "wake up" ad nauseum? The whole "wake up, sheeple, you're being manipulated" is both correct and amusingly self-terminating.

Metacognition, for all its benefits, comes with the newfound sisyphean task of being unable to intentionally avoid thinking about a white elephant for an entire minute. "Don't be influenced by the ads/media/propaganda" works about as well.

So perhaps the best way to reduce manipulation is to find a way back to sleep sometimes. A sort of meta-meta-cognition, if you will. It's self-awareness all the way down.

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