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Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

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Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#101

Post by blueprint »

gnaritas wrote: post #64
blueprint wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are huge numbers of claims, but who among the multitudes has the evidence? If any Buddhist monks or temple has Buddha's teachings, they should also have the ways of life from the problems to the resolutions. But they don't have them, and instead they use meditation to trick people into giving up the real answers. It's the same thing as giving themselves up. This is an important point and the root cause of this…

> There are huge numbers of claims, but who among the multitudes has the evidence? And here you are making all kinds of claims, without presenting a shred of evidence. Ponder on that.

That's not true.

Let's verify what you said.

If you quote me on something you can't find a shred of evidence of, I'll see if I can tell you what it is.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#102

Post by blueprint »

spatular wrote: post #54
blueprint wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have some understanding about it so I can explain a little, but it's necessary to learn from an Enlightened being directly to get perfect understanding. The good news is that it is indeed simple, but it's not easy for everyone to accept, no matter their age or educational career. The principle means that something is determined - like the formula in arithmetic whereby 1 + 1 = 2; as long as the question (and de…

So, as I understand, this is also a main principle of most modern sciences: outcome of a proper experiment must be reproducible. In other words, given enough detailes that matter, it's possible to predict behaviour of the system. Also if an Enlightened being sees the world as it is and gets perfect understanding directly, he(she) can make what is generally considered scientific breakthroughs with ease. Does it really…

Actually, He claimed to understand entirely how gravity works and is generated. He also had very extensive knowledge of medical science, and how consciousness works. I've personally listened to about 50 conversations with American researchers he traveled across the country to meet, and not one of them asked him a question to verify the evidence of his claims, or learn more. No one wanted to learn from him, but not one could answer his simple questions about their field of study. I really regret this about them because I'm finding lately that I have some questions I should have asked him when I was younger.

Yet, despite his extensive travels, it seems so easy for people who claim philosophical or scientific knowledge to criticize him before they verify who he is and what he really can perceive.

Psychologically speaking, why do people behave like that? In my experience it occurs when they don't want their falsehoods to be revealed.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#103

Post by blueprint »

omarchowdhury wrote: post #52
blueprint wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one has attained Enlightenment through Zen nor meditation in human history. Buddha himself never claimed he was enlightened through meditation. That's a fabrication of Buddhist monks whose level of consciousness is quite a bit lower than that of Gautama. Nowadays, the misunderstanding has been passed down for thousands of years, so what I'm saying now seems unacceptable in modern society. If you accept that medita…

Why couldn't anyone be enlightened? The Buddha said the true nature of all beings is that of enlightenment.

I would ask you to give me a citation, but I'm not sure if it will be so helpful.

We know all the scriptures were written by monks, perhaps 500 or more years after Gautama Buddha passed away. Most of the time they just wrote down what they wanted, or from their own ideas and opinions.

"Buddha nature" is one of the first lies that Buddhist monks tell people. People donate to the monks who practice meditation because they want to invest in someone who is spending all his time on a path they think will get to Enlightenment. But it is not virtue to donate to the monks.

Someone only can have Enlightenment and Buddha nature by removing every falsehood from inside themselves. But if he did that he'd be a Tathagata in this lifetime, and it is ultimately very rare to encounter a living enlightened being.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#104

Post by KenjiCrosland »

tokenadult wrote: post #4

On 25 June 2012, Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution Is True website recommended a LONG video of a lecture by Sam Harris, a meditation practitioner, from April’s Global Atheist Conference in Melbourne. The video lecture is on the subject of the atheist attitude toward death, and Harris leads his audience through a mindfulness meditation exercise as part of the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITTxTCz4Ums I watched the w…

I'd like to hear more about this tension you speak about so that I better address what you have to say. I've personally wrestled with mindfulness vs. action and one of the reasons I continue to practice mindfulness meditation is: 1. It's one of the most accessible types of meditation (in terms of finding a teacher) in the West. 2. Mindfulness and being grounded in the present moment has influenced the quality of my day-to-day action. While I won't go into detail, I feel as though my day to day actions have been guided by an increased sense of purpose and compassion.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#105

Post by omarchowdhury »

blueprint wrote: post #103
omarchowdhury wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why couldn't anyone be enlightened? The Buddha said the true nature of all beings is that of enlightenment.

I would ask you to give me a citation, but I'm not sure if it will be so helpful. We know all the scriptures were written by monks, perhaps 500 or more years after Gautama Buddha passed away. Most of the time they just wrote down what they wanted, or from their own ideas and opinions. "Buddha nature" is one of the first lies that Buddhist monks tell people. People donate to the monks who practice meditation because t…

You are obviously cherry picking.

One of the first things you said in this thread is a reference to what Buddha said.

Actually, your reference itself was false. You said that Buddha said enlightenment cannot come through meditation, yet, Buddha stated enlightenment can come through adherence to the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path, one of the limbs of that being right concentration/samadhi/meditation.

"Most of the time they just wrote down what they wanted, or from their own ideas and opinions."

I would ask you for a citation, but it obviously would not be helpful. You only write down from your own ideas and opinions and think it is Truth.

Again, you are cherry picking.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#106

Post by lobo_tuerto »

_z7iw wrote: post #91
Evgeny wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are huge numbers of claims, but who among the multitudes has the evidence? If any Buddhist monks or temple has Buddha's teachings, they should also have the ways of life from the problems to the resolutions. But they don't have them I would really like to know how you test this - how do you approach the evaluation if someone is enlightened or just pretending?

The wall is that we first have to know what Enlightenment is very correctly to check if something meets the criteria for Enlightenment. The way to verify what something is, lies in the results it makes - just like our example of a fruit tree. Seeds and leaves may look similar across an apple, plum, and cherry, but we know instantly what it is when we see, smell, and taste the fruit. I've reported Master Tathagata's d…

How can you know what Enlightenment is very correctly? does that mean that you are yourself Enlightened? If so, that would explain how can you sanction everyone else's Enlightenment, like all of Zen monks, etc.

Also, how do you know that indeed a Buddha comes every 3000 years? where is the Truth pointing to that?

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#107

Post by jshen »

Alex3917 wrote: post #78
jshen wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a lot of Buddhists talk about mind being separate from body. If you push them on it they get very vague very quickly.

What's generally meant by the mind being separate from the body is that the idea that we control our bodies by thinking is actually an illusion. The way Buddhists know this is that in the body starts controlling itself without any input from the mind, something you can experience relatively easily from meditating. It only took me about 6 or 7 days to achieve the beginnings of this. (Scared the crap out of me, but it…

This is rather vague. When you get specific it stops being spiritual. For example, I have decided I will go to the gym tonight. I haven't gone yet, so clearly my mind is aware of my decision to go the the gym before my body actually goes to the gym.

Of course, you didn't mean that. You meant something like "if I'm driving my car, and an animal runs in front of my, my body reacts before I am consciously aware of it". This is true, but I'm not sure what this has to do with spirituality. What is "spirituality"?

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#108

Post by _z7iw »

lobo_tuerto wrote: post #106
_z7iw wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wall is that we first have to know what Enlightenment is very correctly to check if something meets the criteria for Enlightenment. The way to verify what something is, lies in the results it makes - just like our example of a fruit tree. Seeds and leaves may look similar across an apple, plum, and cherry, but we know instantly what it is when we see, smell, and taste the fruit. I've reported Master Tathagata's d…

How can you know what Enlightenment is very correctly? does that mean that you are yourself Enlightened? If so, that would explain how can you sanction everyone else's Enlightenment, like all of Zen monks, etc. Also, how do you know that indeed a Buddha comes every 3000 years? where is the Truth pointing to that?

I only try to report exactly what I've learned directly from a living Enlightened Being - I'm not claiming qualification to see and teach the Truth. I've been studying this for a while, so I get better and better at recognizing people's questions when I encounter the particular cases, but always make sure to tell them that this is what I learned from the master. Monks in today's world never wanted to learn from a living Buddha, because he never lets people tell even a little lie in front of him. Instead, the monks stay with the dead Buddha because he never scolds them and just smiles..

So, about the period that an Enlightened Being comes to the world, there are a couple things you need to know.

The first thing is that an Enlightened being only comes to the world in certain circumstances. The last one we know about is Gautama Buddha. There was no one among the religious practitioners of his day who knew the correct teaching and right way to attain Enlightenment. They all had quite varied practices and did some strange stuff. Because nobody knew, that was why he had to come teach and search on foot for 45 years for someone wanted to listen to him.

Gautama Buddha, after he taught, said that his teaching would stay and brighten the world for about a thousand years. The period after that thousand years is when his teaching begins to disappear. And finally, the third 'ending' period after that is when his teaching has disappeared completely. It's only when Buddha's teaching has disappeared that an Enlightened being comes to the world again to reveal the truth.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#109

Post by lobo_tuerto »

_z7iw wrote: post #108
lobo_tuerto wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you know what Enlightenment is very correctly? does that mean that you are yourself Enlightened? If so, that would explain how can you sanction everyone else's Enlightenment, like all of Zen monks, etc. Also, how do you know that indeed a Buddha comes every 3000 years? where is the Truth pointing to that?

I only try to report exactly what I've learned directly from a living Enlightened Being - I'm not claiming qualification to see and teach the Truth. I've been studying this for a while, so I get better and better at recognizing people's questions when I encounter the particular cases, but always make sure to tell them that this is what I learned from the master. Monks in today's world never wanted to learn from a liv…

How did you realize that your master was a living Enlightened Being? can you give the specific questions and answers that you used to recognize him as such?
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