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Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

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Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#61

Post by redsunglasses »

bko wrote: post #23
lotsofpulp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the assumption coming from that a “shit hits the fan” event will happen? What if it is just a slow degradation in myriad aspects of quality of life only felt over the course of decades?

Ah yes, the myriad aspects of quality of life that has degraded over decades. https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty-in-brief https://www.wsj.com/articles/climate-activists-disasters-fir...

I thought it was clear that the person you responded to (as well as the grandparent comment) was talking about the future. No one is denying that we are much better off right now as a species than we ever have been. The point is that we can't safely assume that that trend will continue in the next 25, 50, or 100 years.

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#62

Post by paxys »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #3

The Planetary Boundaries framework is so bad, I don’t understand why it’s so popular. Most of the "boundaries" are directly correlated. Most of them are fairly arbitrary. It’s such an awful tool to discuss the actual very serious issue it underlines. I wish it would just disappear. Just to be clear, there is nothing magical about most of these boundaries. The situation is not in any way suddenly worse today than yest…

"The fire has spread to 50% of the house."

"Now the fire has spread to 90% of the house."

"Meh, the metrics are meaningless because they are correlated. The house is fine."

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#63

Post by balozi »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #3

The Planetary Boundaries framework is so bad, I don’t understand why it’s so popular. Most of the "boundaries" are directly correlated. Most of them are fairly arbitrary. It’s such an awful tool to discuss the actual very serious issue it underlines. I wish it would just disappear. Just to be clear, there is nothing magical about most of these boundaries. The situation is not in any way suddenly worse today than yest…

The cynic in me sees people building careers off promotion of pseudo-science, and other on the creation of content around said pseudo-science. Reminds me of string theory for some reason.

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#64

Post by mistrial9 »

roschdal wrote: post #21

Humanity needs to stop flying all the time.

humanity is not flying.. a very, very small subset of humanity.. and "largest carbon footprint has most prestige" is a very real phenomenon among that set. Four times in the last month I have read bragging stories mentioning very privelaged and therefore "elite" individuals described, including extreme private airplane use. Watch for the kneejerk response, too. Anti-"climate protest" media commonly uses the "flying hypocrisy" attack against those who are actively agitating against Fossil Fuels.. it works!

Compare and contrast to "Climate Week New York City" this week and the passenger miles involved with that. Hint- there is no "truth" in the analysis.. it is reactive and exaggerated on all sides.

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#65

Post by worldsayshi »

bongodongobob wrote: post #41
abeppu wrote: post #37

> “The overall diagnostic is that the patient, Planet Earth, is in critical condition,” says Johan Rockström The planet as a patient is a problematic metaphor. What does this mean? A human patient in critical condition is at risk of dying. But the planet is not going to "die", though many species will. We need better ways of talking clearly (not with hyperbole) about the current situation and the stakes. Even with se…

Why does this argument always come up? We all know the planet won't die. Humans might though. That's why we're concerned. This is always presented as some "ackshully" very smart argument. Yeah, it's a big fuckin rock, of course it won't die. That's not the concern.

It will probably take a lot to make humans die out at this point. Humans will die, but not humanity. Technological society might collapse, although I think our adaptability will ultimately save it. And it will continue to destroy the conditions for other species to survive, as we collapse and then grow again - until we figure out how to not do that.

There only one resolution to this big conundrum and that is to make technological society to not compete with the biological ecosystem of earth.

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#66

Post by ghastmaster »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #51
ghastmaster wrote: post #46

> Earth’s oceans absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, providing a valuable carbon sink as humans burn fossil fuels. But this process also makes the oceans more acidic, which can disturb the formation of shells and coral skeletons and affect fish life cycles, per the report. Atmospheric CO2 levels are at historic lows.[1] Bivalves have shells and evolved during the Cambrian Explosion. The Cambrian explosion took…

Definitely not historic lows. Perhaps it's been higher, but it's definitely been lower than now.

In the last 400,000 years the concentration has fluctuated from about 180ppm to about 300 many times.[1] My historical reference in the previous post was the last 500,000,000 years. In that context we are low.

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth's_atmo...

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#67

Post by AQuantized »

bko wrote: post #23
lotsofpulp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the assumption coming from that a “shit hits the fan” event will happen? What if it is just a slow degradation in myriad aspects of quality of life only felt over the course of decades?

Ah yes, the myriad aspects of quality of life that has degraded over decades. https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty-in-brief https://www.wsj.com/articles/climate-activists-disasters-fir...

Not sure how this is relevant given it's the effects of a future climate catastrophe being discussed, not something that has already happened.

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#68

Post by redsunglasses »

ghastmaster wrote: post #46

> Earth’s oceans absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, providing a valuable carbon sink as humans burn fossil fuels. But this process also makes the oceans more acidic, which can disturb the formation of shells and coral skeletons and affect fish life cycles, per the report. Atmospheric CO2 levels are at historic lows.[1] Bivalves have shells and evolved during the Cambrian Explosion. The Cambrian explosion took…

It's an interesting point to cherry-pick, and it's fair to question the affect of atmospheric CO2 on aquatic life, but you can't say that CO2 levels are at historic lows when they're up 30% in the past 60 years [1].

[1] - https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#69

Post by carapace »

redleggedfrog wrote: post #29

Way back in the SimEarth days I got introduced to the Gaia concept, which at the time seemed a little hokey, but as time goes on seems more and more apt. Not trying to sound like Agent Smith, but sure seems like the earth is treating humans like a virus and is warming itself up to get rid of us. We had a long time to see it coming, but it's not politically popular to acknowledge it, and here in the U.S. you can signa…

If Mother Nature wanted to roll us up as a failed experiment she could eliminate us overnight with one virus. Lighten up.

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#70

Post by jepj57 »

ghastmaster wrote: post #46

> Earth’s oceans absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, providing a valuable carbon sink as humans burn fossil fuels. But this process also makes the oceans more acidic, which can disturb the formation of shells and coral skeletons and affect fish life cycles, per the report. Atmospheric CO2 levels are at historic lows.[1] Bivalves have shells and evolved during the Cambrian Explosion. The Cambrian explosion took…

Meanwhile:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Hunga_Tonga%E2%80%93Hun...

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