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Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

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Re: Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

#21
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appalachia is particularly cursed by geography. Mountainous areas can't support much large-scale economic activity beyond subsistence farming, resource extraction, and tourism. It's just too expensive to move things around. We see the same issues in other countries as well.

The Nordic economies were also characterized by low-intensity agriculture, resource extraction, and tourism, as well as a remarkably similar 28M population vs 26M Appalachians. Topographically, Appalachia isn't much different from places like Norway. Yet the Nordic situation couldn't be more different. The issues with Appalachia aren't the result of some impossible geographic curse, they're the accumulation of countl…

Norway isn't really comparable. Their population is concentrated along the coastline and can use the sea to cheaply transport goods.

Certainly the situation in Appalachia could be improved. The point is that their geography is a handicap which makes almost everything a little harder.

Re: Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

#22
post #12
post #2

How much of this is simply a lack of healthcare availability in rural areas? We've been seeing reports for years of health clinics and hospitals closing in rural areas. Even emergency services are becoming problematic. Consider that cardiovascular issues are one of the leading causes of death in the US. Time is of the essence. If your local hospital has been closed, your emergency services have been consolidated in y…

We should do more to expand access to healthcare in rural areas, but healthcare services beyond the basics (immunization, antibiotics, trauma care) do little to increase lifespan at the aggregate population level. Causes of death are mostly chronic diseases brought on by lifestyle factors and even the best treatments for those conditions usually only delay death by a little.

Should we? Or should we put those dollars where they would help the most people, in urban areas that are also chronically underserved.

Re: Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

#23

I grew up in a small town, about 1000 people. I can only visit for 2 or 3 days because there is zero options for eating healthy. The gas station has pizza and subs, Dollar General has no produce, and the one restraunt is burgers and fries. I feel tired and gross after a few days. I can't image what years of that diet would do to a person.

I venture that, if you counted calories, you could eat, like, hamburger patties, with onions and some french fries (no bun), and supplement with a multivitamin, and be mostly ok. Fat/grease isn't completely awful, so long as you actually include it in your count, and stick to under 2,000 kcal/day. You'll just find that relatively small volumes of food are required.

Potatoes you don't want to go overboard on, but as carbs go they're among the better ones -- better than bread -- because their glycemic index is lower. And with the skins on they have nontrivial vitamin/mineral content.

If you did a little more cooking at home, particularly with beans (not in sugary ketchup, just beans with butter and spices -- salt, pepper, cumin, say), then you'd be a bit better, on account of the fiber. Add frozen or, failing that, canned vegetables, and you're almost actually good.

Often you can find canned chilli that's nutritionally pretty good; just make sure it doesn't have sugar; they put sugar in too much stuff.

Getting more of your calories from nuts is also a good option. Surely you can get a jar of peanuts? A large handful is 300 kcal. A couple of those spaced over the day can fuel you quite well with a slow burn.

The car-deprndrnce of the country is an issue; you probably would not naturally walk far enough. If there's some way to schedule in about two miles a day -- walk to the gas station for a black coffee? -- then that'd help to maintain some minimal baseline levels of activity.

Stick to the calorie count and maintain some (frankly modest) level of light exercise and you can maintain your health in a fairly wide range of circumstances.

...

I get what you mean though. There's a real class difference. You go to higher class places and there are plenty of salad places around. You go to low class places and there's fast food junk. The latter isn't even much cheaper. It's enough to make you start wondering if people are in the classes they are because of the standards they have. That's not a comfortable thought, but, when you look at how all the bankers seem to also have good gym routines, you really do start to wonder.

...

You don't need to do anything superhuman though. You don't need to even summon the willpower to hit the elliptical machine every day. If you just think about what you're eating, count calories, reduce sugar and fast carbs, and walk a bit, you'll do pretty well.

Re: Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

#24
Hasn't the opioid epidemic really screwed up a lot of rural America? I see interviews online, and it seems like half the people are struggling with addiction. And a lot of others are loaded up with prescription psychotropics. These things may be related, what with "self-meducation". And perhaps there are selection effects -- the mentally well ones got out? But there's some kind of cocktail of drugs and mental illness out there.

Re: Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

#25

I grew up in a small town, about 1000 people. I can only visit for 2 or 3 days because there is zero options for eating healthy. The gas station has pizza and subs, Dollar General has no produce, and the one restraunt is burgers and fries. I feel tired and gross after a few days. I can't image what years of that diet would do to a person.

I venture that, if you counted calories, you could eat, like, hamburger patties, with onions and some french fries (no bun), and supplement with a multivitamin, and be mostly ok. Fat/grease isn't completely awful, so long as you actually include it in your count, and stick to under 2,000 kcal/day. You'll just find that relatively small volumes of food are required. Potatoes you don't want to go overboard on, but as c…

> The latter isn't even much cheaper.

For the customer, perhaps. Higher margin, though, so the business can survive with fewer customers.

I think it is pretty clear that "high class" places attract more restaurant traffic. Case in point: The town I grew up in, of 1,000 people but a town of the rich and famous (you're probably familiar with quite a few of them), there are 15 restaurants (was 16, but one recently burnt down). The town where I live now, which is the next one up the road but more of a working man's town, has 3,000 people yet only seven restaurants.

Re: Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

#26
post #4

I was raised and live in an area of Central Texas with some of the highest growth rates in the US. It might be that a sort of rural gentrification is just destroying a lifestyle that was always taken for granted. Small farms/ranches around here are economically unfeasible. Small businesses cannot compete with large well established/funded corporations. Handyman jobs (still needed) are commodified and often the answer…

Earl Butz said "get big or get out" half a century ago, so if anyone was taking their lifestyle for granted maybe they hadn't been paying attention to the Secretary of Agriculture?

[deleted]

Re: Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

#27

I grew up in a small town, about 1000 people. I can only visit for 2 or 3 days because there is zero options for eating healthy. The gas station has pizza and subs, Dollar General has no produce, and the one restraunt is burgers and fries. I feel tired and gross after a few days. I can't image what years of that diet would do to a person.

I venture that, if you counted calories, you could eat, like, hamburger patties, with onions and some french fries (no bun), and supplement with a multivitamin, and be mostly ok. Fat/grease isn't completely awful, so long as you actually include it in your count, and stick to under 2,000 kcal/day. You'll just find that relatively small volumes of food are required. Potatoes you don't want to go overboard on, but as c…

> The latter isn't even much cheaper

Last time I was in McD the price of a salad (even without a chicken!) was close to the cost of BigMac.

But the most amusing is what I opened mcdonalds.com and there is no salads in the menu at all.

Re: Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

#28
post #4

I was raised and live in an area of Central Texas with some of the highest growth rates in the US. It might be that a sort of rural gentrification is just destroying a lifestyle that was always taken for granted. Small farms/ranches around here are economically unfeasible. Small businesses cannot compete with large well established/funded corporations. Handyman jobs (still needed) are commodified and often the answer…

Earl Butz said "get big or get out" half a century ago, so if anyone was taking their lifestyle for granted maybe they hadn't been paying attention to the Secretary of Agriculture?

TIL Pietism, the common backdrop of both Veblen, Hesse, and a vast swath of rural america.

See also Merton Thesis,Mertonian Norms (dont know if that ever inspired sci-fi?)

「Becker 1992」

Question: are the Mertonian norms fundamentally inhospitable to meritocracy, so that they may yet serve as a viable target for the transmogrification of socalled antiintellualism?

>the scientific ethos does not have [its] theoreticians… but it has [its] [designori]

Re: Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earl Butz said "get big or get out" half a century ago, so if anyone was taking their lifestyle for granted maybe they hadn't been paying attention to the Secretary of Agriculture?

TIL Pietism, the common backdrop of both Veblen, Hesse, and a vast swath of rural america. See also Merton Thesis , Mertonian Norms (dont know if that ever inspired sci-fi?) 「Becker 1992」 Question: are the Mertonian norms fundamentally inhospitable to meritocracy, so that they may yet serve as a viable target for the transmogrification of socalled antiintellualism? > the scientific ethos does not have [its] theoretic…

I'd originally pattern matched on a very different Merton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Storey_Mountain

What's the clash with meritocracy? Disinterest?

Interesting to see Mennos classified here as "radical pietists" when I normally read of them as being "fancy anabaptists", where fancy is the opposite of radical in that it's a pejorative for an overly conformational* relation with the world.

FWIW, I've run across a "protestant ethic" ascribed also to the Starovery (russian "old believers"); my current explanation is that whenever a marginal group finds the traditional low-risk cursus closed (whether due to exclusion by the external majority, or to disapproval by their in-group) they tend to reinvest in speculative ventures (and as long as they're doing so jointly, they ought to have sufficient diversification to thrive under this allocation?).

EDIT: a deeper Q from Pietism: to what extent must an organisation behave in ways that are comprehensible to its rank and file? (1984 argues that it's important enough that comprehensibility should override consistency?)

EDIT2: * in order to get "in the world" vs "of the world", we possibly need english prepositions, and definitely need to read John classically, as if the world is clopen and therefore not out of the world equivales in the world. What about the boundary of the world? (yet another open question for Algebraic Theology)

Re: Rural Americans are dying younger, living less healthy lives, report reveals

#30

Hasn't the opioid epidemic really screwed up a lot of rural America? I see interviews online, and it seems like half the people are struggling with addiction. And a lot of others are loaded up with prescription psychotropics. These things may be related, what with "self-meducation". And perhaps there are selection effects -- the mentally well ones got out? But there's some kind of cocktail of drugs and mental illness…

> self-meducation

That was supposed to be "self-medication", but we may have stumbled upon another idea here.

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