Octopuses seen hunting together with fish • Hacker News Board

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#61

Post by bmelton » Thu, Sep 26, 2024, 2:15 PM UTC

kadgh wrote: post #48

lenerdenator wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it's not at the empathy or morality levels of humans that a lot of people consider "smart", either. As for the female octopus trying to eat the male octopus, did I ever tell ya the one about my ex wife? Huh? Huh? crickets

Excellent point, but a truly intelligent octopus species would set up a parliament and make laws that the male octopus must provide 10 fish per week to the female after mating instead of cannibalism.

Or perhaps the octopus regard us as under-evolved for having done similar

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#62

Post by stonemetal12 » Thu, Sep 26, 2024, 2:16 PM UTC

noelwelsh wrote: post #8

Literally a sucker punch. It doesn't seem like true cooperation as they don't share in the catch. I also didn't see any measurements of how much they caught versus hunting alone.

In the NPR article on it, the researcher says it is most likely beneficial for the fish because the octopus can pull prey out of crevices that the fish can't usually reach, so there is more food than either would have alone.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#63

Post by carlmr » Thu, Sep 26, 2024, 2:17 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #59

neerajk wrote: post #22

aside: me after reading the headline: Shouldn't that be Octopii? But no! "The plural form octopii is doubly incorrect. Firstly, octopus derives from Greek, not Latin; its etymologically-consistent plural form is octopodes. Secondly, even if octopus were a second-declension Latin noun, the plural form would be octopi; in the correct plurals radii and gladii, with which octopii is analogous, the first ‘i’s are part of…

But more generally, enough generations have passed that "octopus" is no longer a foreign word, it's now just part of the English lexicon, and so you're free to pluralize it in the standard English manner. "Octopuses" is correct by that reasoning. Note that this is the same process that we eventually apply to every other loanword; next time you talk to a German, watch them cringe at "delicatessens" as the plural to "d…

Delicatessen itself is a French loanword (délicatesse) in German that's wrongly pluralized, it should be délicatesses not delicatessen.

So it's like doubly wrong.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#64

Post by dboreham » Thu, Sep 26, 2024, 2:18 PM UTC

dudefeliciano wrote: post #14

satvikpendem wrote: post #4

Octopuses are much more intelligent than many give them credit for, but sadly I also love takoyaki (but then again, eating horse and whale is also culturally acceptable in Japan, one of the few countries that allow it; I've tried both as well, they're pretty good).

horse meat is allowed in plenty of countries, in northeast italy you can find a lot of horse (and donkey) meat dishes. It is a delicacy though, and more expensive than "regular" meat.

Not sure about today but when I was a kid horse meat was in every grocery store in France.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#65

Post by cyberpunk » Thu, Sep 26, 2024, 2:18 PM UTC

neerajk wrote: post #22

aside: me after reading the headline: Shouldn't that be Octopii? But no! "The plural form octopii is doubly incorrect. Firstly, octopus derives from Greek, not Latin; its etymologically-consistent plural form is octopodes. Secondly, even if octopus were a second-declension Latin noun, the plural form would be octopi; in the correct plurals radii and gladii, with which octopii is analogous, the first ‘i’s are part of…

I’m sure I read a sci-fi novel some years back where one of the main characters selectively breeds octopuses for intelligence before dropping them on a terraformed planet and there was a small bit about how he didn’t like octopuses either and so called them octopii.

I’m in his boat ;)

fun book, forgot the name.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#66

Post by HelloMcFly » Thu, Sep 26, 2024, 2:18 PM UTC

hagbard_c wrote: post #15

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #13

I used to love eating octopus, but since I've learned so much about their intelligence, I have not been able to bring myself to do so, anymore. I have the luxury of choice. There are many, in this world, that do not.

They only live for 3 years or so, just eat them when they're close to kicking the bucket. This short lifetime combined with their intelligence does raise the question how far an octopus could get if it were able to reach our age. Would they continue learning and adapting, leading to a race of superintelligent molluscs or would they plateau in their first year and just coast along?

Typically octopuses produce offspring only near the end of their life, so eating them at any point is destructive for their reproduction and species health.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#67

Post by dboreham » Thu, Sep 26, 2024, 2:19 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #19

satvikpendem wrote: post #4

Octopuses are much more intelligent than many give them credit for, but sadly I also love takoyaki (but then again, eating horse and whale is also culturally acceptable in Japan, one of the few countries that allow it; I've tried both as well, they're pretty good).

Most European countries do have horse meat.

Except Tesco lasagna.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#68

Post by FireBeyond » Thu, Sep 26, 2024, 2:19 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #46

neerajk wrote: post #22

aside: me after reading the headline: Shouldn't that be Octopii? But no! "The plural form octopii is doubly incorrect. Firstly, octopus derives from Greek, not Latin; its etymologically-consistent plural form is octopodes. Secondly, even if octopus were a second-declension Latin noun, the plural form would be octopi; in the correct plurals radii and gladii, with which octopii is analogous, the first ‘i’s are part of…

I wonder why it is that "octopuses" just kind of sounds wrong? Is it the repeated "s" at the end? But we have no problem saying "buses" or "rebuses". Is it something to do with the plural of "fish" just being "fish"? But we have no problem making whales and dolphins plural with an -s. Is it that "-puses" sounds slightly vulgar, like we're talking about multiple female genitalia? I genuinely don't know. All I know is…

> I'll still say "octopuses", but I know I always want to say "octopii" instead. (And spell it that way too, because "octopi" feels like it would rhyme with "canopy".)

There's a restaurant near here called Octapas.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#69

Post by hagbard_c » Thu, Sep 26, 2024, 2:20 PM UTC

HelloMcFly wrote: post #66

hagbard_c wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only live for 3 years or so, just eat them when they're close to kicking the bucket. This short lifetime combined with their intelligence does raise the question how far an octopus could get if it were able to reach our age. Would they continue learning and adapting, leading to a race of superintelligent molluscs or would they plateau in their first year and just coast along?

Typically octopuses produce offspring only near the end of their life, so eating them at any point is destructive for their reproduction and species health.

Eat them after they reproduced then, they only do that once in their life.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#70

Post by mannykannot » Thu, Sep 26, 2024, 2:20 PM UTC

diego_sandoval wrote: post #52

mannykannot wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and one thing that makes me skeptical is that for it to be effective, the fish being punched would presumably have to understand that the octopus wants it to act in a certain way - i.e., the hypothesis seems to imply that the fish has a theory of mind with respect to the octopus. Similarly, it seems to imply that the octopus has a theory of mind about the fish - it believes that the fish will understand why…

Theory of mind is not necessary for the fish. I think conditioning should be enough, and conditioning works on pigeons.

Fair point.

On looking at it again, I think the reporter and/or editor have introduced unnecessarily teleological language. The researchers themselves describe the octopus behavior as though it is a matter of herding the fish - presumably, I suppose, to where it feels there are more prey to be found.