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Google Cache is fully dead

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Re: Google Cache is fully dead

#211

Post by renewiltord »

Apocryphon wrote: post #205
renewiltord wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the guy who would conceive and execute on this idea was never going to be a guy who would stop there. Folks like this don’t aim at some point and then achieve it and stay there. They aim higher, land where they do, and continue to target the higher point. It’s how it is. You can tell because how many of the rest of the people who would have stopped and flown under the radar have duplicated the Archive and s…

Hm, what's that Carl Sagan quote, "They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." Brewster Kahle's vision for the Internet Archive as an electronic repository for human knowledge is the former. His belief that he can just blithely tussle with the entire copyright regime in such a half-cocked manner is the latter. You should not confuse…

I'll believe it when the pragmatic someone will replicate the Archive in all but ebook lending. Exactly zero of these wise men have done anything which is what I expect from those who speak who never do.

Re: Google Cache is fully dead

#212

Post by Apocryphon »

renewiltord wrote: post #211
Apocryphon wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, what's that Carl Sagan quote, "They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." Brewster Kahle's vision for the Internet Archive as an electronic repository for human knowledge is the former. His belief that he can just blithely tussle with the entire copyright regime in such a half-cocked manner is the latter. You should not confuse…

I'll believe it when the pragmatic someone will replicate the Archive in all but ebook lending. Exactly zero of these wise men have done anything which is what I expect from those who speak who never do.

Slavish "the man in the arena" worship isn't particularly audacious. Unquestioning support for audacity for the sake of it speaks to lack of discernment. And to parrot a HN truism- a failure to account for survivor bias.

By all means, romanticize recklessness even when it results in self-defeating catastrophe. Yet there are plenty of other worthier figures to lionize and archives to patronize- Alexandra Elbakyan and Sci-Hub, the anonymous samizdat dissidents and LibGen.

Re: Google Cache is fully dead

#213

Post by bjord »

cyberax wrote: post #9

I used cache a lot, not just to view sites, but see the text versions of PDF and Word documents. RIP.

oh, wow, same! this comment just made me realize that some of my older projects will no longer work after this

Re: Google Cache is fully dead

#214

Post by DaoVeles »

skinnymuch wrote: post #84
DaoVeles wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death by thousand paper cuts in action. I love Firefox (fork) it is my only browser but you can see the long term trend and I do wonder if it will even be a thing in a decades time. Unless there is a sudden shift towards it, is will eventually be relegated to the last of the most devoted geeks as we watch it wither away at the hands of the tech giants running the net. A big thing was when they cut the Servo team that…

The saddest day will be when Firefox switches to a blink engine

I had not thought of that. That is probably very likely. They can keep their public mantra of "privacy" to keep people coming to them but without the burden of tech development. Higher ups like that equation.

It is probably inevitable, I mean if even Microsoft couldnt fight off Googles browser dominance, what hope does Mozilla have long term.

Re: Google Cache is fully dead

#215

Post by zepearl »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #19

I would presume Google still has all this data. They just will not let anyone else use it. Could this be an advantage that Google can use to train their models on but others won't have access? Google wants it to be more difficult to notice rewrites? Journalists to often have found valuable information with it?

> I would presume Google still has all this data. ...

Maybe - I guess that they must have served that "cached" content from DB-records that had it all saved directly (URL X has contents Y => basically a "mirror" of the terms that they indexed) => not having to store that "mirror" (only the search index) might save quite a lot of storage space (and I/O and CPU to decompress it, as users won't be requesting it anymore) => all in all that might save quite a lot of infrastructure costs $$$.

> Could this be an advantage that Google can use to train their models on but others won't have access?

Maybe (if they decided to just get rid of the I/O related to the user requests), but on the other hand I don't know if previously any "Google-consumer" was ever able to perform mass-downloads of Google's "cached" data - could that be done without being banned by Google's webpage (or API)?

Re: Google Cache is fully dead

#216

Post by lolinder »

mrguyorama wrote: post #198
anonymousab wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't really fighting it, because they never picked a winnable battle. Rather, they overextended themselves massively in a blunder akin to just throwing themselves on their enemy's sword. They decided to go all-or-nothing on uncontrolled digital lending when there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell that the current laws would give them any wiggle room. And unsurprisingly, it will give them a mortal wound.

"Pick a winnable fight" means the internet archive does not exist. Copyright in the US is very clear cut. There is no fight to "win" without changing the law. That means advocacy. That sometimes means civil disobedience and getting society to fight for them. You want an internet archive? We need to reform copyright law.

The Internet Archive already pushed the boundaries and existed for long enough to make meaningful headway. They were winning the fight by picking the right battles and flying under the radar all the way up until they decided to completely overstep their mission and take on a fight that no one had any hope they would win.

Re: Google Cache is fully dead

#217

Post by matt-p »

lithos wrote: post #190
matt-p wrote: post #157

On a unrelated note, could IA be charging companies training AI for access to an API with all thier data, or a enormous data dump? Presumably historical context is quite useful for so e cases and if they can access new content like books etc then that'd be another benifit. It is a win win for site owners who currently have everyone and thier dog crawling thier site at the moment.

Historical data, or before AI spam data is the most valuable. Makes sense to pull up the ladders from competitors.

Indeed, I would have done this yesterday in IA's shoes. Never have too big of a legal/servers fund.

Re: Google Cache is fully dead

#219

Post by renewiltord »

Apocryphon wrote: post #212
renewiltord wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll believe it when the pragmatic someone will replicate the Archive in all but ebook lending. Exactly zero of these wise men have done anything which is what I expect from those who speak who never do.

Slavish "the man in the arena" worship isn't particularly audacious. Unquestioning support for audacity for the sake of it speaks to lack of discernment. And to parrot a HN truism- a failure to account for survivor bias. By all means, romanticize recklessness even when it results in self-defeating catastrophe. Yet there are plenty of other worthier figures to lionize and archives to patronize- Alexandra Elbakyan and…

It's not worship. It's an observation. Those who talk, say they would stop at a precise stopping point, but they never start. Those who do, almost always overshoot this precise stopping point that the talkers refer to. An IA that has the precise stopping point is possible today. But zero people have made it. This is not unique.

In fact, I'll tell you what, you make it and I will dedicate my ArchiveTeam Warrior to your project instead for a year.

Re: Google Cache is fully dead

#220

Post by Apocryphon »

renewiltord wrote: post #219
Apocryphon wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slavish "the man in the arena" worship isn't particularly audacious. Unquestioning support for audacity for the sake of it speaks to lack of discernment. And to parrot a HN truism- a failure to account for survivor bias. By all means, romanticize recklessness even when it results in self-defeating catastrophe. Yet there are plenty of other worthier figures to lionize and archives to patronize- Alexandra Elbakyan and…

It's not worship. It's an observation. Those who talk, say they would stop at a precise stopping point, but they never start. Those who do, almost always overshoot this precise stopping point that the talkers refer to. An IA that has the precise stopping point is possible today. But zero people have made it. This is not unique. In fact, I'll tell you what, you make it and I will dedicate my ArchiveTeam Warrior to you…

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