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Launch HN: Haystack (YC S24) – Visualize and edit code on an infinite canvas

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Re: Launch HN: Haystack (YC S24) – Visualize and edit code on an infinite canvas

#51

Post by gavmor »

> Haystack takes care of the tedious confusing parts of coding

Tedious, yes, but confusing? Yikes!

My job as a coder is to resolve ambiguity favorably. Every day, I strive to leave the world less confusing than I found it. I would no more rely on an IDE to "take care" of confusion than I would outsource my firm's core competencies.

But the main conceit is cool, and I'm sure the dependency graph is helpful. I'm just picking nits with marketing copy. Can't wait to check it out! (Although my first instinct is to check for a canvas plugin for VScode).

Edit: I should say that I think this UI paradigm will fundamentally improve coder understanding by exploiting our visual cortex and "sixth sense" of proprioception, at least as far as I understand it via Supersizing the Mind (Andy Clark, 2008).

Re: Launch HN: Haystack (YC S24) – Visualize and edit code on an infinite canvas

#52

Post by hyggetrold »

akshaysg wrote: post #48
hyggetrold wrote: post #38

Does this project take any inspiration from Light Table? Potential feature request - take the visualization beyond 2D. Really complex systems are usually an intricate graph (polite way of saying ball of yarn) and just visualizing in the 2D plane doesn't seem to cut it in my experience. I would love to have something like concentric spheres of visualization - boundary services on the outer layer, core/domain services…

A lot of people mentioned Light Table, but I didn't know about it until post-launch! It's interesting that you mention a more 3D view. We were ideating on this, but it's really hard to get right in a way that the user can understand. This is definitely part of our vision for the future though! EDIT: Deleted the bit about my speculation regarding Light Table since it's false.

Light Table was getting lift and traction but didn't make it. There was a ton of conversation on it back in the day on HN, including great presentations by the creator (who had been a PM on Visual Studio as MSFT!). Definitely check it out.

There's definitely demand for this tool but it looks like it's hard to get it off the ground. Wishing you the best of luck!

Re: Launch HN: Haystack (YC S24) – Visualize and edit code on an infinite canvas

#53

Post by akshaysg »

gavmor wrote: post #51

> Haystack takes care of the tedious confusing parts of coding Tedious, yes, but confusing? Yikes! My job as a coder is to resolve ambiguity favorably. Every day, I strive to leave the world less confusing than I found it. I would no more rely on an IDE to "take care" of confusion than I would outsource my firm's core competencies. But the main conceit is cool, and I'm sure the dependency graph is helpful. I'm just p…

Hmm I think someone else has voiced a similar opinion on the wording here, and I actually do agree with you.

What was meant by this statement is really just taking care of plumbing and the visualization of how code relates to one another.

To give you a very basic/silly example of plumbing, if I add a parameter in a function used in 100s of places, doing the manual work to figure out what edits I need to make to those callers is pretty annoying and in most cases mechanical.

If you're lucky, you can do a grep + replace (or just use a default param), but in most cases I find it requires more manual intervention than that.

Re: Launch HN: Haystack (YC S24) – Visualize and edit code on an infinite canvas

#55

Post by gavmor »

akshaysg wrote: post #53
gavmor wrote: post #51

> Haystack takes care of the tedious confusing parts of coding Tedious, yes, but confusing? Yikes! My job as a coder is to resolve ambiguity favorably. Every day, I strive to leave the world less confusing than I found it. I would no more rely on an IDE to "take care" of confusion than I would outsource my firm's core competencies. But the main conceit is cool, and I'm sure the dependency graph is helpful. I'm just p…

Hmm I think someone else has voiced a similar opinion on the wording here, and I actually do agree with you. What was meant by this statement is really just taking care of plumbing and the visualization of how code relates to one another. To give you a very basic/silly example of plumbing, if I add a parameter in a function used in 100s of places, doing the manual work to figure out what edits I need to make to those…

Adding a parameter to the function signature, and then passing an additional value at each call site is done... automatically in Haystack? Impossible!

Edit: And "to figure out what edits I need to make" is done by any ol' compiler, no?

Re: Launch HN: Haystack (YC S24) – Visualize and edit code on an infinite canvas

#57

Post by akshaysg »

closetkantian wrote: post #54

So this is a major side question, but is there a go-to open source infinite canvas? I'm building a card game and I need a multiplayer infinite canvas for it. I'd appreciate any recommendations.

Does tldraw work for you? We use Pixi JS, which comes with graphics as well.

Re: Launch HN: Haystack (YC S24) – Visualize and edit code on an infinite canvas

#58

Post by akshaysg »

joshdavham wrote: post #56

> we're going to eventually monetize How do you plan on monetizing?

Collaborative and generative AI features. E.g. sharing Haystack workspaces, searching your codebase in the natural language, making edits to multiple files, etc.

Re: Launch HN: Haystack (YC S24) – Visualize and edit code on an infinite canvas

#60

Post by akshaysg »

gavmor wrote: post #55
akshaysg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm I think someone else has voiced a similar opinion on the wording here, and I actually do agree with you. What was meant by this statement is really just taking care of plumbing and the visualization of how code relates to one another. To give you a very basic/silly example of plumbing, if I add a parameter in a function used in 100s of places, doing the manual work to figure out what edits I need to make to those…

Adding a parameter to the function signature, and then passing an additional value at each call site is done... automatically in Haystack? Impossible! Edit: And "to figure out what edits I need to make" is done by any ol' compiler, no?

Not yet -- it's our vision to automate stuff like that!

> Edit: And "to figure out what edits I need to make" is done by any ol' compiler, no?

Kinda? There are cases where you have to drill data down into the callstack (i.e. pass data from above). There are folks who have gone down this path before: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/resharper/Refactorings__Chang... but we intend to automate it even more and show it to the user in an organized way for them to handle large-scale "refactors".

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