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Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

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Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#51

Post by omarchowdhury »

blueprint wrote: post #38
awakeasleep wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know the simple principle? Is it the golden rule?

Yes, I have some understanding about it so I can explain a little, but it's necessary to learn from an Enlightened being directly to get perfect understanding. The good news is that it is indeed simple, but it's not easy for everyone to accept, no matter their age or educational career. The principle means that something is determined - like the formula in arithmetic whereby 1 + 1 = 2; as long as the question (and de…

Those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#52

Post by omarchowdhury »

blueprint wrote: post #6
cellularmitosis wrote: post #3

Your Zen is showing :) I really enjoy posts like this which take a subject which is usually discussed from a "mystical" or "spiritual" perspective, and instead attempt to approach it from a physiological perspective. This pleases the knee-jerk part of my brain which often screams "skip the mumbo-jumbo and show me the data!" (and I'm slowly working to tame that part of my brain, because I recognize that an "empirical…

No one has attained Enlightenment through Zen nor meditation in human history. Buddha himself never claimed he was enlightened through meditation. That's a fabrication of Buddhist monks whose level of consciousness is quite a bit lower than that of Gautama. Nowadays, the misunderstanding has been passed down for thousands of years, so what I'm saying now seems unacceptable in modern society. If you accept that medita…

Why couldn't anyone be enlightened?

The Buddha said the true nature of all beings is that of enlightenment.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#53

Post by bostonvaulter2 »

tehayj wrote: post #31
moron wrote: post #27

Every time I have tried to meditate I just feel ridiculous and stop. But reading this description of its effects, I really don't understand the benefit.

The benefit is cognitive defusion. That means you gain the ability to observe your thoughts instead of identifying yourself with them. This gives you more control (because you also learn to accept whatever comes up) and as a result more happiness. Check this video with a step by step guide how to meditate I did. It's pretty easy and everyone with a bit of patience can benefit from doing it. http://jayuhdinger.com/cha…

Stated more simply: "you are not your thoughts"

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#54

Post by spatular »

blueprint wrote: post #38
awakeasleep wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know the simple principle? Is it the golden rule?

Yes, I have some understanding about it so I can explain a little, but it's necessary to learn from an Enlightened being directly to get perfect understanding. The good news is that it is indeed simple, but it's not easy for everyone to accept, no matter their age or educational career. The principle means that something is determined - like the formula in arithmetic whereby 1 + 1 = 2; as long as the question (and de…

So, as I understand, this is also a main principle of most modern sciences: outcome of a proper experiment must be reproducible. In other words, given enough detailes that matter, it's possible to predict behaviour of the system.

Also if an Enlightened being sees the world as it is and gets perfect understanding directly, he(she) can make what is generally considered scientific breakthroughs with ease. Does it really happen?

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#55

Post by Volpe »

jshen wrote: post #23
Alex3917 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I really enjoy posts like this which take a subject which is usually discussed from a "mystical" or "spiritual" perspective, and instead attempt to approach it from a physiological perspective." The more you understand both perspectives, the more you realize that the differences between them aren't actually that big. If you listen to enough buddhist geeks talks this becomes apparent pretty quickly. I'd also recommen…

" the only difference between spiritual beliefs and academic ones is the language used to express them" I'm not sure what is meant by "academic", but if it's a synonym for science then I disagree. Watch the link below (feynman on the scientific method), a little after the 5 minute mark he talks about the problems of "vague" theories. This vagueness is where spiritual beliefs usually diverge from scientific beliefs. h…

But buddhists generally aren't vague, they are extremely expressive about what they are talking about. Are you refering to something specific?

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#56

Post by wamatt »

Alex3917 wrote: post #17
cellularmitosis wrote: post #3

Your Zen is showing :) I really enjoy posts like this which take a subject which is usually discussed from a "mystical" or "spiritual" perspective, and instead attempt to approach it from a physiological perspective. This pleases the knee-jerk part of my brain which often screams "skip the mumbo-jumbo and show me the data!" (and I'm slowly working to tame that part of my brain, because I recognize that an "empirical…

"I really enjoy posts like this which take a subject which is usually discussed from a "mystical" or "spiritual" perspective, and instead attempt to approach it from a physiological perspective." The more you understand both perspectives, the more you realize that the differences between them aren't actually that big. If you listen to enough buddhist geeks talks this becomes apparent pretty quickly. I'd also recommen…

I know what you mean. It's all about the underlying patterns and concepts and their relations to one another.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#57

Post by psykotic »

tokenadult wrote: post #4

On 25 June 2012, Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution Is True website recommended a LONG video of a lecture by Sam Harris, a meditation practitioner, from April’s Global Atheist Conference in Melbourne. The video lecture is on the subject of the atheist attitude toward death, and Harris leads his audience through a mindfulness meditation exercise as part of the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITTxTCz4Ums I watched the w…

> Having lived in a predominantly Buddhist society during two different three-year stays as that society transformed from Third World colonialized poverty to First World free and democratic modernity, I'm not at all sure that most people would be more happy if most people were doing more mindfulness meditation.

Could you expand on this baffling non-sequitur? I truly can't make heads or tails of it.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#58

Post by GiraffeNecktie »

tokenadult wrote: post #4

On 25 June 2012, Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution Is True website recommended a LONG video of a lecture by Sam Harris, a meditation practitioner, from April’s Global Atheist Conference in Melbourne. The video lecture is on the subject of the atheist attitude toward death, and Harris leads his audience through a mindfulness meditation exercise as part of the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITTxTCz4Ums I watched the w…

"There is genuine suffering in the world that it is important to do something about"

You're right. But as the Buddhists say "Start where you are." How are you going to address all the suffering in the world if you can't address the suffering in your own heart or your own home? I would even say that, for some people at least, their frantic efforts to fix the world outside are simply a way of avoiding dealing with the world inside.

And it is certainly true that efforts to bring peace are probably more effective when they come from people who are living in peace with themselves.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#59

Post by floptikal »

blueprint wrote: post #6
cellularmitosis wrote: post #3

Your Zen is showing :) I really enjoy posts like this which take a subject which is usually discussed from a "mystical" or "spiritual" perspective, and instead attempt to approach it from a physiological perspective. This pleases the knee-jerk part of my brain which often screams "skip the mumbo-jumbo and show me the data!" (and I'm slowly working to tame that part of my brain, because I recognize that an "empirical…

No one has attained Enlightenment through Zen nor meditation in human history. Buddha himself never claimed he was enlightened through meditation. That's a fabrication of Buddhist monks whose level of consciousness is quite a bit lower than that of Gautama. Nowadays, the misunderstanding has been passed down for thousands of years, so what I'm saying now seems unacceptable in modern society. If you accept that medita…

If you are interested in Blueprint's (Paul Shapiro) theory, and check out the "true" Buddha, you can find more info here:

http://www.members.tripod.com/tathagata2000/

Paul has even made a ipphone app for him here: http://itunes.apple.com/app/enlightenment-lite/id449546123?m...

No?

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#60

Post by ram2012 »

blueprint wrote: post #19
acous wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is limited, but I thought that enlightenment was a buddhist term used to describe significant subjective perceptual changes which are more likely to occur with enough quality meditation practice. I was under the impression that there are thousands of people alive today, in various traditions like Zen, who claim to have experienced these changes in perception in various guises. a truly enlightened bei…

Good question. Enlightenment, in the context you mentioned, indicates that you abandon one consciousness and get a new one. However, what happens through meditation is not the same as that and it has a different point than Enlightenment - meditation is an activity for changing your mind, and the result of modern meditation is that your mind gets darker and you can lose yourself. People can see lots of illusions in th…

Please see "The mystique of enlightenment" by UG Krishnamurti who is supposedly an enlightened being who lived until last decade. He actually discounts all experiences and says that enlightenment is a state where the body returns to a primordial or a natural state. He went though several physiological changes akin to what is described in Hinduism as "Chakras". What is interesting is that UG describes meditation as "warfare".
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