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Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

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Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#91

Post by sangnoir »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #62
simonw wrote: post #13

This price drop is significant. For For comparison, GPT-4o is currently $5/million input and $15/million output and Claude 3.5 Sonnet is $3/million input and $15/million output. Gemini 1.5 Pro was already the cheapest of the frontier models and now it's even cheaper.

I wonder if they're pulling the wall-mart model. Ruthlessly cut costs and sell at-or-below costs until your competitors go out of business, then ratchet up the prices once you have market dominance.

There's lot of room to cut margins in the AI stack right now (see Nvidia's latest report); low prices are not an sure indication of predatory pricing. Which company do you think is most likely to have the lowest training and inference costs between Anthropic, OpenAI and Google? My bet goes to the one designing,producing and using their own TPUs.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#92

Post by svara »

cj wrote: post #11
mixtureoftakes wrote: post #3

TLDR - 2x cheaper, slightly smarter, and they only compare those new models to their own old ones. Does google have moat?

Moat could be things like direct integration into Gmail (ask it to find your last 5 receipts from Amazon), Drive (chat with PDF), Slides (create images / flow charts), etc. Not sure if their models are the moat. But they definitely have an opportunity from the productization perspective. But so does Microsoft.

Have you tried the Gemini Gmail integration? I have that enabled in my GSuite account.

It's incredible how bad it is. I've seen it claim I've never received mail from a certain person, while the email was open right next to the chat widget. I've seen it tell me to use the standard search tool, when that wasn't suitable for the query. I've literally never had it find anything that wouldn't have been easier to find with the regular search.

I mean, it's a really obvious thing for them to do, I'm genuinely confused why they released it like that.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#93

Post by arresin »

I’ve used it. The API is incredibly buggy and flakey. A particular pain point is the “recitation error” fiasco. If you’re developing a real world app this basically makes the Gemini api unusable. It strikes me as a kind of “Potemkin” service.

Google is aware of the issue and it has been open on google's bug tracker since March 2024: https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/331677495

There is also discussion on GitHub: https://github.com/google-gemini/generative-ai-js/issues/138

It stems from something google added intentionally to prevent copyright material being returned verbatim (ala the NYT openai fiasco), so they dialled up the "recitation" control (the act of repeating training data—and maybe data they should not have legally trained on).

Here are some quotes from the bug tracker page:

> I got this error by just asking "Who is Google?"

> We're encountering recitation errors even with basic tutorials on application development. When bootstrapping a Spring Boot app, we're flagged for the pom.xml being too similar to some blog posts.

> This error is a deal breaker... It occurs hundreds of times a day for our users and massively degrades their UX.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#94

Post by mil22 »

kendallchuang wrote: post #24

Has anyone used Gemini Code Assist? I'm curious how it compares with Github Copilot and Cursor.

I have used Github Copilot extensively within VS Code for several months. The autocomplete - fast and often surprisingly accurate - is very useful. My only complaint is when writing comments, I find the completions distracting to my thought process.

I tried Gemini Code Assist and it was so bad by comparison that I turned it off within literally minutes. Too slow and inaccurate.

I also tried Codestral via the Continue extension and found it also to be slower and less useful than Copilot.

So I still haven't found anything better for completion than Copilot. I find long completions, e.g. writing complete functions, less useful in general, and get the most benefit from short, fast, accurate completions that save me typing, without trying to go too far in terms of predicting what I'm going to write next. Fast is the key - I'm a 185 wpm on Monkeytype, so the completion had better be super low latency otherwise I'll already have typed what I want by the time the suggestion appears. Copilot wins on the speed front by far.

I've also tried pretty much everything out there for writing algorithms and doing larger code refactorings, and answering questions, and find myself using Continue with Claude Sonnet, or just Sonnet or o1-preview via their native web interfaces, most of the time.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#96

Post by jeffharris »

simonw wrote: post #41
GaggiX wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPT-4o is 2.5/10$. Unless you look at an old checkpoint. GPT-4o was the cheapest frontier model before.

I can’t see that price on https://openai.com/api/pricing/ - it’s listing $5/m input and $15/m output for GPT-4o right now. No wait, correction: That’s confusing: it lists 4o first and then lists gpt-4o-2024-08-06 as $2.50/$10.

apologies: it's taken us a minute to switch the default `gpt-4o` pointer to the newest snapshot

we're planning on doing that default change next week (October 2nd). And you can get the lower prices now (and the structured outputs feature) by manually specify `gpt-4o-2024-08-06`

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#99

Post by Deathmax »

phren0logy wrote: post #64
spiralk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/terms this?

Thanks very much! I think before I looked at docs for Google AI Studio, but also for Google Workspace, and both made no guarantees. From the linked document, so save someone else a click: > The terms in this "Paid Services" section apply solely to your use of paid Services ("Paid Services"), as opposed to any Services that are offered free of charge like direct interactions with Google AI Studio or unpaid quota in Ge…

There's some possible confusion because of the Copilot problem where everything in the product stack is called Gemini.

The Gemini API (or Generative Language API) as documented on https://ai.google.dev uses https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/terms for its terms. Paid usage, or usage from a UK/CH/EEA geolocated IP address will not be used for training.

Then there's Google Cloud's Vertex AI Generative AI offering, which has https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/data-g.... Data is not used for training, and you can opt out of the 24 hour prompt cache to effectively be zero retention.

And then there's all the different consumer facing Gemini things. The chatbot at https://gemini.google.com/ (and the Gemini app) uses data for training by default: https://support.google.com/gemini/answer/13594961l, unless you pay for Gemini Enterprise as part of Gemini for Workspace.

Gemini in Chrome DevTools uses data for training (https://developer.chrome.com/docs/devtools/console/understan...).

Enterprise features like Gemini for Workspace (generative AI features in the office suite), Gemini for Google Cloud (generative AI features in GCP), Gemini Code Assist, Gemini in BigQuery/SecOps/etc do not use data for training.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#100

Post by [deleted] »

GaggiX wrote: post #84
lacker wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not. Do they really believe they are going to knock OpenAI out of business, when the OpenAI models are better? Instead I think they are going after the "Android model". Recognize they might not be able to dethrone the leader who invented the space. Define yourself in the marketplace as the cheaper alternative. "Less good but almost as good." In the end, they hope to be one of a small number of surviving memb…

Android is more popular than iOS by a large margin and it's neither less good or cheaper, it really depends on the smartphone.

[deleted]
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