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In 1870, Lord Rayleigh used oil and water to calculate the size of molecules

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Re: In 1870, Lord Rayleigh used oil and water to calculate the size of molecules

#111
post #15

That reminds me of the Millikan & Fletcher oil-drop experiment [0], which measured the charge of the electron. In short, microscopic atomized oil droplets had their fall-time through air measured to figure out their volume, and then a known electric field was used to levitate them. The calculated charge-per-molecule clustered around multiples of a smaller value, which would be the charge of an individual electron. [0…

They tried a similar experiment first, called the water drop experiment. It was intended to work in the exact same way, except with the obvious parameter varied: they would use water instead of oil.

The reason the water drop experiment failed was that the bright lamps they used to look at the drops evaporated the water too quickly.[1] Such a relatable experience!

[1]: https://buttondown.com/entropicthoughts/archive/when-bubble-...

Re: In 1870, Lord Rayleigh used oil and water to calculate the size of molecules

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One drop in a soup bowl sized petri dish, measure the area it covers.

Surely the first thing to test would be dropping it in increasingly large soup bowls until there's obvious gaps?

How would the gaps be obvious? I'm not sure I could tell 1 molecule from 0 molecules when it comes to the thickness of oil film.

Re: In 1870, Lord Rayleigh used oil and water to calculate the size of molecules

#114

I love articles like this. I feel like too often in science education (at least my science education) that laws and theories are presented as just something that you need to memorize, when in my opinion the stories of how things were originally discovered and figured out is eminently more fascinating and inspiring. Like I remember having to learn all of these biochemical pathways, but I left school with nary a clue a…

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Re: In 1870, Lord Rayleigh used oil and water to calculate the size of molecules

#115
post #50

In 1676 Roemer estimated the speed of light by timing the orbit of Jupiter’s moon Io, noting that as the Earth approached Jupiter, Io emerged from behind Jupiter a little earlier every day, and as the Earth traveled away from Jupiter it appeared a little later every day, with the time of day varying by 22 minutes over a year. Knowing the difference between the two distances, he reckoned that light travels that distan…

It's amazing to think that with nothing more than a telescope and careful timing, he managed to get so close to the actual speed of light.

Re: In 1870, Lord Rayleigh used oil and water to calculate the size of molecules

#116

I would have loved to have had a course in school about "The Design of Scientific Experiments." One that described the processes of landmark historical experiments from antiquity onward, and challenged students throughout: "Given this set of constraints, how would you design and execute an experiment to estimate the size of the Earth? Disprove phlogiston and luminiferous aether? Measure the speed of light?"

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Re: In 1870, Lord Rayleigh used oil and water to calculate the size of molecules

#117
post #49

I would have loved to have had a course in school about "The Design of Scientific Experiments." One that described the processes of landmark historical experiments from antiquity onward, and challenged students throughout: "Given this set of constraints, how would you design and execute an experiment to estimate the size of the Earth? Disprove phlogiston and luminiferous aether? Measure the speed of light?"

Experiments are HARD . There is a joke among physicists that theoreticians are washed up by 35 but experimentalists don't even get started until 45. To make a physics experiment work you have to be ridiculous about recording details and have a strong intuition. You have to design the experiment such that you can differentiate between "hypothesis wrong" and "equipment doesn't work" because you don't know the answer .…

100% true

And this is my sticking point with a lot of "Science skeptics" around that have skepticism as their personality

Make no mistake, I do take scientific discoveries and knowledge very serious, and knowing the stories make it appreciate more the efforts and the work it took to get there

But a lot of times people think the experiments give a very clear-cut results, when it's more like "one line is squiggly down and the other is squiggly up" with data being barely over 5 sigma

Re: In 1870, Lord Rayleigh used oil and water to calculate the size of molecules

#118
The title of this thread appears to be wrong, because the parent article says

"But a little experiment that Rayleigh performed in 1890, inspired directly by Franklin's observations, is not nearly as well-known."

Therefore Rayleigh computed the size of molecules in 1890, not in 1870 (in 1870 Rayleigh was young and not known yet for any original research).

While Rayleigh has devised a novel method for determining the size of molecules, it should be noted that the first who has succeeded to determine the size and weight of molecules was Johann Josef Loschmidt, in 1865.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Josef_Loschmidt

The publication of the weight and size of air molecules by Loschmidt is one of the most important milestones in the history of physics.

Until that moment in 1865, the theory of atoms revived by Dalton could still be considered as some kind of fictitious model that explained some features of the chemical reactions and of thermodynamics, but which might have been wrong and which would probably be replaced by some better model.

Starting from that moment, the atoms and molecules could be weighed and counted, so their reality was no longer questioned.

The determination by Loschmidt of the size and weight of air molecules was enough to determine the sizes and weights of any other known atoms and molecules, making use of the relative atomic weights that could be determined from chemical reactions and which were already known.

Moreover, a few years later, in 1874, George Johnstone Stoney has used the results of Loschmidt together with the theory of the existence of an elementary electric charge published by Maxwell one year before, in 1873, to compute the value of the elementary electric charge. Some years later, Stoney has given the name "electron" to the elementary electric charge, which has been the source of a very large number of words in modern science and technology, from electronics to hadrons.

Re: In 1870, Lord Rayleigh used oil and water to calculate the size of molecules

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question exactly.. I hope someone can chime in :) EDIT: Thinking a bit more... I suppose it's a reasonable assumption that the molecules (mostly) wouldn't stack on top of each other. They all want to get lower and perhaps the resistance to the oil spreading out is much lower proportionately that the gravitational force encouraging the oil to flatten

But if I spill some oil on my plate it doesn't look a molecule thin to me. Why is it different with water?

I guess oil is repelled by water, so when it's poured on top of water it's more like floating on top. So the water pushes up, gravity pulls down and the oil molecules pull on each-other, there is no horizontal friction, allowing the oil to spread out this way. Whereas the oil does slightly stick to your plate, as can be observed when moving the plate around, so it won't spread as thinly?

Re: In 1870, Lord Rayleigh used oil and water to calculate the size of molecules

#120
Cool article. They somehow got the formula wrong though, the formula on the screenshot has an additional factor of 0.9 that accounts for the fact that 1l of oil is not 1 kg. Perhaps it's intentional, but for something so simple I don't think it needs to be dumbed down even further.
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