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The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

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Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#281

Post by Olreich »

RestlessMind wrote: post #259
n_ary wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think that you need to be around to make connections. I have had colleagues who were at office once every blue moon but everyone in the office knew them and invited them everywhere. And I also know of people who sit on opposite desks for years and only have greetings and coffee chit-chats when forced to. Anyone with good people skills will break any barriers to connect and build a network of influence regard…

> If someone is holding two jobs remotely, it mostly means they are in "bulls!!t" job where they are not utilized to adequate levels and the symptoms of low output is not correctly noticed. You are putting too much faith in human nature. Lot of times, people are simply greedy and abuse the cultural norms put in place to allow slacks when truly warranted. Seen those stories first hand, and then there is https://www.re…

You don’t have time to work two real full time jobs. If you have time to keep 2 bosses happy where both are expecting 40 hours a week from you and you are giving 20, then those bosses suck at gauging performance and making good hires.

If you are actually twice as productive as your co-workers and can manage a 40-hour a week job in 20, then the companies are getting what they paid for. Good for you that you found two jobs you’re uniquely qualified for. I’m happy you’re getting paid to do both jobs instead of having to waste the other 20 hours of your week on labor you don’t get paid for.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#282

Post by erik_seaberg »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #194
yurishimo wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of your 8 hours at the office is productive work? In my experience, half the day is spent on coffee breaks and lunch anyway.

> How much of your 8 hours at the office is productive work? That's your management's problem, not yours. Your labor contract says that you owe the company your time, how they use it is not your business.

It's typical for salaried positions in tech to be exempt. I was last paid hourly by a body shop nearly 20 years ago.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#283

Post by EasyMark »

jbverschoor wrote: post #140
JSDevOps wrote: post #135

The whole “remote work kills productivity” argument is outdated. Studies and real-world examples show the opposite: many people are more productive at home without the daily commute and office distractions. Plus, companies have tools and strategies to keep teams connected and engaged, so the idea that culture just dissolves over time isn’t based on reality. Culture isn’t about being in the same room; it’s about value…

Really? A workplace with no proper desk, chair, lighting, multi screen setup, isolation from domestic distractions, crappy phone lines due to bad internet, the hurdle of contacting someone who used to sit next to you, and the impossibility of scribbling something on a whiteboard etc? Sure, remote work can be productive for certain work, and for certain people. But people underestimate the value of an office. Working…

The added benefits are worth it in my opinion. The gains in freedom, lack of need to commute, access to good food from your fridge, the freedom from the tyranny of farting, loud, obnoxious office peers. Of course there is a down side for juniors and power seeking middle management but they are in the minority and can learn to adjust. The gains in mental health and personal life have to outweigh what is lost.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#284

Post by EasyMark »

lnenad wrote: post #216
-mlv wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.google.com/search?q=collaborative+whiteboard Desk, chair, lightning, monitors are easily googlable, too. Coming back to office creates more problems than it solves.

> Desk, chair, lightning, monitors are easily googlable, too. All those things are part of the office and you don't have to pay for them. > Coming back to office creates more problems than it solves. Other than commute which could be a bitch in the US what other problems for the company do they create? Yes hanging out at home is nice for you/me, you can rest, nap, be with your kids, do chores, but how would this matt…

If they abuse them then their productivity plummets and they get fired.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#285

Post by EasyMark »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #132

Yes, commercial real estate is hurting but that is only one component of the bigger picture. Everyone in the surrounding area finds it desperately hard to make ends meet. The restaurants and cafes, the minimarts, the cleaners, janitors, security, various stores: clothing, bookshops, bakeries etc. All these people lose their jobs and for the small independent Stores where the owners have poured in their savings they l…

But why is that my problem? The restaurants that are closer to me will get more of my business as will closer businesses to me. Of course some will get hurt and some will get helped, that’s just economics.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#286

Post by EasyMark »

Kiro wrote: post #65

I think it's about productivity. Maybe not for you or me but if you're on TikTok you've probably seen the 'quiet vacations' trend, where kids learn how to fake working in their remote jobs. This is why we can't have nice things.

Then their jobs didn’t mean anything to start then? What well run business doesn’t have metrics for their employees to meet ? If they are able to “vacation” and get their jobs done, what is the harm in that?

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#288

Post by RestlessMind »

Olreich wrote: post #281
RestlessMind wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone is holding two jobs remotely, it mostly means they are in "bulls!!t" job where they are not utilized to adequate levels and the symptoms of low output is not correctly noticed. You are putting too much faith in human nature. Lot of times, people are simply greedy and abuse the cultural norms put in place to allow slacks when truly warranted. Seen those stories first hand, and then there is https://www.re…

You don’t have time to work two real full time jobs. If you have time to keep 2 bosses happy where both are expecting 40 hours a week from you and you are giving 20, then those bosses suck at gauging performance and making good hires. If you are actually twice as productive as your co-workers and can manage a 40-hour a week job in 20, then the companies are getting what they paid for. Good for you that you found two…

True story of what happened in my team. A new guy joins. Immediately 3 months after joining, says his dad is ill and takes a 4 month unpaid leave. But his stocks continue to vest because the company believes in letting people vest their stock even if they are on medical leave. Comes back and is not very productive. Extremely reluctant to turn his video on. Never comes for any in person events we have organized. Rest of the team is pulling weight for him throughout all this. Eventually, management becomes suspicious, investigates and discovers that he is holding two jobs. Instantly fired and company reconsiders all the nice accommodations they have put in place to help employees deal with covid.

I have seen my share of bad managers and bad companies. Believe me - there are bad employees as well who poison the well for others.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#289

Post by sixeyes »

JohnBooty wrote: post #225
slg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels a lot worse to deliver a lame joke at the start of an all hands meeting to a bunch of muted zoom windows with their cameras off. How much of the return to office is leaders wanting that polite chuckle from that captured audience back? I'm barely being facetious. "That polite chuckle" is really a stand in for all the soft power they wield in person that evaporates with WFH. They have lost a degree of control…

"That polite chuckle" is really a stand in for all the soft power they wield in person that evaporates with WFH. They have lost a degree of control and power, it is basic human nature to look for a way to claw that back. That's an interesting angle and I really mean "interesting" in the literal sense. My hunch is that the corporate executive's thirst for power generally works a little differently than that, in ways I…

I think the chuckle serves as a reminder of that status. And if there is no chuckle, it is considered rude, not giving you what your status deserves.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#290

Post by Melchizedek »

EasyMark wrote: post #283
jbverschoor wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? A workplace with no proper desk, chair, lighting, multi screen setup, isolation from domestic distractions, crappy phone lines due to bad internet, the hurdle of contacting someone who used to sit next to you, and the impossibility of scribbling something on a whiteboard etc? Sure, remote work can be productive for certain work, and for certain people. But people underestimate the value of an office. Working…

The added benefits are worth it in my opinion. The gains in freedom, lack of need to commute, access to good food from your fridge, the freedom from the tyranny of farting, loud, obnoxious office peers. Of course there is a down side for juniors and power seeking middle management but they are in the minority and can learn to adjust. The gains in mental health and personal life have to outweigh what is lost.

Not to mention huge benefits to the environment, reduced pollution, less traffic congestion leading to increased societal efficiency overall. And we can go on and on.

But it’s obvious corps only like to virtue signal about such things while in reality not caring one iota about them.

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