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The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

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Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#171
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe most people can get all their work done in 4 hours so sitting in an office for 8 is pointless

Maybe, maybe not. However, management bought 8 hours of your time and not 4 when they hired you.

So it's up to management to fill my time with work. If I finish my work in 4 hours, then it's not my problem.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#172
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe most people can get all their work done in 4 hours so sitting in an office for 8 is pointless

Maybe, maybe not. However, management bought 8 hours of your time and not 4 when they hired you.

Tech jobs, especially in California, usually hire you for all your time. If your work requires overtime, you work overtime without getting paid overtime. This is called an “exempt” job.

So the times you’re off on the weekends doing no work is valuable to the company because you’re recharging your mind and possibly also thinking about problems subconsciously.

I went to check my job offer, and it doesn’t mention anything about 40 hour weeks or 8 hour days.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no conspiracy theory here. Most people will work 4 hour work days when working remotely. (And if they're working an 8 hour work day it's because they're working two remote jobs at the same time.) "No loss of productivity" is a flat out lie.

How much of your 8 hours at the office is productive work? In my experience, half the day is spent on coffee breaks and lunch anyway.

In my company we decided to go to the office 1 day every week. It´s completely optional and most of the people come. For us, that day is almost 100% lost. You spend the morning in some calls, dailies and things like that, and ofcourse taking some coffees and talking to people that you didnt see in 1 week. I even send myself notes for the next days when i work from home where im more productive.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#175

The idea that there's a global cabal of ultra-wealthy real-estate owners who have globally conspired to control people to go back to the office holds about as much weight in my mind as the idea that there's a global cabal of ultra-wealthy who have globally conspired to create a virus to control the population. Covid was an outlier event, and the outcomes that occurred as a result of it will revert to the mean over ti…

> global cabal

Is that what we are calling business now? As if industry players don't buy media outlets precisely to push their narratives (look at tech outlets, crypto outlets, pharma etc). How is this a "cabal"? It's cheaper to just talk to your friend who owns business insider and also invests in the same RE funds to ask "journalists" to research on the topic.

Also, plenty midmanagement in many industries love RTO: it's harder to justify their roles (and what they got promoted for) unless they have bags of flesh to oversee. It's not a cabal of midmanagement. It's just midmanagement slow pushing for RTO internally.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#176
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory, which is kind of informed by what I saw it play out in my company: The reason is a psychological one. Most leaders derive their power from in-person interactions. Remote and video calls severely impact that. Those leaders also love having an audience that needs to listen to them whenever they are in the room and the lack of that kind of feedback and adulation shellshocked a lot of them.

It feels a lot worse to deliver a lame joke at the start of an all hands meeting to a bunch of muted zoom windows with their cameras off. How much of the return to office is leaders wanting that polite chuckle from that captured audience back? I'm barely being facetious. "That polite chuckle" is really a stand in for all the soft power they wield in person that evaporates with WFH. They have lost a degree of control…

To follow on from your premise; I suspect it comes from a misunderstanding of authority. In my experience most leaders have a visceral understanding of authority, but not an actual understanding. Authority comes from submission; anything you submit to has authority over you. The corollary of course is that the submissive person has the power in the relationship; at any time they can say I don't want this any more. Obviously in a work context this means quitting.

So if a leader wants, requires, needs, is addicted to that feeling that people are submitting to them, then things will eventually go downhill as in the end the only people who will work for them will be "yes men".

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling stuff a "conspiracy theory" is just a thought-terminating cliché, and measuring the ability of humans to conspire [0] by equating that ability with stuff like Elvis still being alive isn't the attempt of an argument, it's just a slogan. [0] for which there is no communication between them required, or even conscious desire to "conspire" of single one of them. Consider how mobbing can go. People don't go "so,…

What is "cliché" is to offer up "McKinsey is this shady organization we all hate!" as some sort of evidence that they could conspire to organize this sort of thing. Getting back to the original thesis of the article, the author is stating that people making the decision on RTO (the "elites", another nebulous scary term...) are doing so because commercial real estate is so critical to their decision making process. If…

The claim was that "the world is not this coordinated", not that McKinsey specifically is orchestrating it all by themselves. And my response to that claim was that it doesn't even have to be "coordinated". Do you disagree? I'm talking about the most rudimentary social dynamics we can observe and take part in daily. We can "conspire with" total strangers even, ad hoc, if we both realize our interests are otherwise endangered. It starts with body language and tone of voice, not memos saying "let's do a crime".

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#178
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory, which is kind of informed by what I saw it play out in my company: The reason is a psychological one. Most leaders derive their power from in-person interactions. Remote and video calls severely impact that. Those leaders also love having an audience that needs to listen to them whenever they are in the room and the lack of that kind of feedback and adulation shellshocked a lot of them.

And that goes up to every levels of the hierarchy. It's definitely about power and control. I'd add that it is also a question of geography. The work place is the place where power exists. And so having you inside the company's walls means you are under control.

Yeah I think this is a huge part of the primitive gratification many people get from workplace “power”. You can often get a glimpse of it in-between the lines in more charged situations: some people essentially have a mental model where they are the sovereign of the office space, or speaks directly for the sovereign. It can get very interesting when that model meets reality (where they are in fact not the sovereign, but just another loyal subject under the law of the land).

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#179
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? A workplace with no proper desk, chair, lighting, multi screen setup, isolation from domestic distractions, crappy phone lines due to bad internet, the hurdle of contacting someone who used to sit next to you, and the impossibility of scribbling something on a whiteboard etc? Sure, remote work can be productive for certain work, and for certain people. But people underestimate the value of an office. Working…

I doubt there are many people in tech with bad Internet. Worst case, there's Starlink. All other issues are easily solvable too, either with the right tools, or the right processes. (nb. I also think working at a coffee shop isn't for most people)

> All other issues are easily solvable too, either with the right tools, or the right processes.

By coming back to the office?

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#180
post #73
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think the world is so coordinated. The "think tanks" that are pre staffed and fully capable of churning out and placing 3x major long form articles per week that are pro or con {Subject X} (and an additional few that fence sit and are "just asking questions") already exist and have been about since at least Nine out of Ten Doctors Recommend Smoking . You know, 5+ decades ago. The "elites" that are losing mo…

Can you link some think tank pieces arguing against remote work? I tried looking but couldn't find any. I found a few things but clearly none of these are part of an anti remote work effort: an AEI interview https://www.aei.org/workforce-development/the-future-of-remo... which seems pretty balanced overall (and doesn't take a prescriptive position) an AEI piece https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/the-trade-o…

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by think piece but you can see negative stories everywhere. The following pulled from current news on remote work: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=remote+work&atb=v379-1&iar=news&ia...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/from-digital-nomad-to-...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianhayesii/2024/09/22/is-ama...

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/in-business/rachel-reeves-urges-end...

https://www.finews.com/news/english-news/64448-zurueck-ins-b...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/09/deloitte-mon...

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2024/09/18/amaz...

https://www.newsday.com/news/region-state/new-york-state-pop...

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/survey-reveals-us-remote-workers-s...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/are-remote-workers-real...

https://www.onrec.com/news/news-archive/is-remote-work-losin...

I've been a remote worker for many years prior to covid and it's been interesting to watch. There's a constant drip of negative articles about remote work which increases to a flood around headlines like the Amazon one.

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