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Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

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Re: Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

#61
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all valve games are linux native, as are lots of steam releases

The point is about the large majority that runs on top of Proton.

There are tens of thousands of titles on Steam, developed since 2004. It's going to be a while before the majority of the catalogue is Linux native.

Re: Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

#62
post #12

I think, especially considering the news of Qualcomm talking with Intel about acquisition, or just Intel's general problems; we are in the last decade of x86.

Even calling Intel x86 a loss overnight AMD is doing more than fine enough, server and consumer, for x86 to stay with a competitive presence into the 2030s even taking a dim view of the architectures future.

After buying Intel, Qualcomm could sink x86 by simply not renewing the cross-licensing agreement with AMD.

With Intel's patents on emulating x86 on other CPU architectures, Qualcomm could then ensure that going forward, the only economically viable way of running x86 code is on Snapdragon CPUs.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/06/intel...

Re: Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

#63
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, pity that the large majority on Steam library are running on top of Proton.

Could you help me understand why that is a pity? Seems like Valve’s adapter pattern is a great development tool to get Linux games without dev studios spending excessive dev time/money on it. Is Proton in some way inferior to native?

I can think of one thing, which might not be what parent meant: the incentive of developing for linux, or paying porters like icculus and flibitijibibo to build a native version goes out the window, and the need for their kind of craft goes away.

Frankly when the SteamDeck launched I hoped that game developers will start treating it as they do any other console and build specifically for it, but sadly Proton prevented that from happening.

Re: Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

#64
post #27

Would it possible to AOT-recompile from x86 to aarch64? Or will it all be emulated forever?

Windows already AOT compiles x86 binaries to ARM64 when they are built with /ARM64EC option. It doesn't support AOT for older executables yet.

ARM64EC requires source and it produces an ARM64EC executable, which runs close to ARM64 speeds. x86/x64 executables are emulated.

Re: Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

#65

It seems pretty clear to me that this is for Valve's long-awaited standalone VR headset, Deckard. What other reason would they have to support Gorilla Tag on ARM? https://x.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/1837210246076588500 Compatibility with your existing Steam library out of the box will be a huge competitive advantage for Deckard over Meta Quest.

It seems pretty clear to me that the main target of this is ARM Chromebooks, at least for now. As these are the only products currently shipping in any relevant numbers where this makes sense.

Re: Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

#66
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes i dont see why not. At least on the surface technical level. I used to work at ms on xbox backcompat games and we AOT recompile PowerPC arch to x86. (Xbox 360 to Xbox one). You could likely aot recompile any arch with enough resources to fix up issues and things. One key difference is older games were fixed so no more updates. It can be a little trickier with modern games still taking updates but could be done.

Not possible to fully AOT for all applications because you don't know which ones do JIT compilation to generate x86 code at runtime. Many games make use of LuaJIT, for example.

LuaJIT would also work with ARM though, so would it be possible to swap it out?

Re: Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

#67
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all valve games are linux native, as are lots of steam releases

The point is about the large majority that runs on top of Proton.

You mean all the games that aren't Valve games? How is Valve supposed to create native Linux ports for them?

Re: Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

#68
post #39

It seems pretty clear to me that this is for Valve's long-awaited standalone VR headset, Deckard. What other reason would they have to support Gorilla Tag on ARM? https://x.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/1837210246076588500 Compatibility with your existing Steam library out of the box will be a huge competitive advantage for Deckard over Meta Quest.

Imho it’s unlikely this is for natively running on a standalone headset. The overhead of translation alone would be just burning already limited compute budgets. The other games on their list are too demanding for untethered play in the wattage one would have on a face mounted device. IMHO gorilla tag here is just a red herring. IMHO this is just valve hedging the bet that ARM machines become more popular , and futur…

I think you're right that they wouldn't ship Gorilla Tag this way. For a game that big I'm sure they can work with the developer to ship a native version. But for internal testing of a headset it would make sense to use this version in advance of availability of a native port.

The games that will ship this way will probably mostly be non-VR games that would never get ported otherwise. So you can play your Steam library full of non-VR x86 Windows PC games on a giant virtual screen in VR.

Re: Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

#69
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam has supported native Linux games for a decade.

It has, yet the focus is all about Proton.

So? How is a game fully running on Proton not a native game?

Wine's version of the Windows API isn't conceptually different from any other cross-platform technology here. You could make a similar purity argument against using the Unity engine since most of its games end up being primarily on Windows too.

Re: Valve is testing ARM64 support for popular games

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you help me understand why that is a pity? Seems like Valve’s adapter pattern is a great development tool to get Linux games without dev studios spending excessive dev time/money on it. Is Proton in some way inferior to native?

I can think of one thing, which might not be what parent meant: the incentive of developing for linux, or paying porters like icculus and flibitijibibo to build a native version goes out the window, and the need for their kind of craft goes away. Frankly when the SteamDeck launched I hoped that game developers will start treating it as they do any other console and build specifically for it, but sadly Proton prevente…

I don't think Proton has prevented anything. In fact, without it, and the back catalog of Windows games it makes available on SteamDeck, I doubt the handheld would have been as popular. SteamDeck was successful enough to get a re-release in the form of the OLED model, which is a big success for a Linux handheld. The longer Valve remains committed to the platform, and the more devices they get into the hands of consumers, the more attractive native Linux games will look to developers.
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