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Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

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Re: Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

#101

Post by RulerOf »

explaininjs wrote: post #29
mdaniel wrote: post #2

If that can be done "off grid," then I welcome it because it's likely a jailbreak vector

Curious what you want from a jailbreak at this point? It seems all of the old things that were actually helpful have found them into first party software, or at least in the sanctioned third party. (internet tethering, emulators, side loaded apps, etc.)

I have a fairly simple list:

- a weekly, scheduled reboot of the device

- an iMessage addon that can auto-respond with `stop` to every political spam message I get

- an iMessage addon that would let me filter, categorize, and display messages in a manner I choose instead of a Big Dumb List, like we've had for email for decades

- an iMessage addon for services like Beeper

- an iMessage addon that ... I smell a pattern

Re: Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

#102

Post by dwaite »

fragmede wrote: post #34
explaininjs wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what you want from a jailbreak at this point? It seems all of the old things that were actually helpful have found them into first party software, or at least in the sanctioned third party. (internet tethering, emulators, side loaded apps, etc.)

Internet tethering is actually one that's gone backwards, with "unlimited" cellphone plans that are limited when tethering. Or plans that disable tethering even though all the software is there. The other thing from a jailbreak would be for it to become self hosting, that is, give the ability to make full blown iPhone ipa on an iOS device without needing a macOS device anywhere at all.

> Internet tethering is actually one that's gone backwards, with "unlimited" cellphone plans that are limited when tethering. Or plans that disable tethering even though all the software is there.

The internet tethering limits are in the contract though. Surely the primary goal for jailbreaking isn't just theft of service?

> The other thing from a jailbreak would be for it to become self hosting, that is, give the ability to make full blown iPhone ipa on an iOS device without needing a macOS device anywhere at all.

You can create full-fledged local apps, or publish them for free or sale in the App Store using Playgrounds on an iPad.

The primary limitations are in things like typing speed and screen real estate as well as UX complexity and side-by-side debugging, none of which directly change with an active jailbreak.

Re: Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

#103

Post by dwaite »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #85
explaininjs wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who does a ton of networking/routing at the link layer for a day job, I can definitely see why they’re taking measures to reduce bandwidth hogs - to the extent I might actually prefer to be on a network that has taken measures to reduce hogging vs one that has not. When it really truly matters, like when I have a business need to download huge items in remote areas, the $10/GB+ justifies itself.

Ironically, downloading huge items is easy to do without tethering. And video streaming, probably most people's biggest bandwidth use, fits very well on phones. Does anyone offer a tethering plan that's rate limited but not data limited?

> Does anyone offer a tethering plan that's rate limited but not data limited?

T-Mobile in the US; they give you a set amount of high-speed tethering based on your plan, then it rate limits severely until the end of the billing cycle unless you upgrade your plan or buy a a pack of data.

Re: Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

#104

Post by Dylan16807 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #98
Dylan16807 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they're not going to switch just for the sake of switching. USB-C has no capabilities that they care about compared to lightning (for phones), that's why they didn't change for so many years. It's just more compatible, and they didn't care about being compatible. I think your argument against 1 is flawed, because I can say the same thing about USB-C, that they won't use it forever . Or in other words, I pick (1b…

> USB-C has no capabilities that they care about compared to lightning (for phones), Being able to share 1 cable type for charging laptops and phones and data transfer Ana basically everything else is pretty useful/convenient.

Right, but that falls under being compatible, and has been true since about 2015.

Re: Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

#105

Post by Dylan16807 »

dwaite wrote: post #103
Dylan16807 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, downloading huge items is easy to do without tethering. And video streaming, probably most people's biggest bandwidth use, fits very well on phones. Does anyone offer a tethering plan that's rate limited but not data limited?

> Does anyone offer a tethering plan that's rate limited but not data limited? T-Mobile in the US; they give you a set amount of high-speed tethering based on your plan, then it rate limits severely until the end of the billing cycle unless you upgrade your plan or buy a a pack of data.

Okay, 600kbps is acceptable. Beats a lot of networks. Things are improving since I last checked.

Though with how happily and loudly they've made 1.5Mbps video excluded from data caps, it would be better if the throttled speed was at least 1.5Mbps.

Re: Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

#106

Post by dwaite »

derefr wrote: post #13
teruakohatu wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest AirPods have usb-c, with the higher tier also including wireless charging. If there was ever a device category to remove usb-c it would be AirPods (which would still be a terrible idea)

I would argue the opposite: AirPods are a pure "client" device — they need to be connected to by something, they don't connect to something; and they have no display, input method, or other means to initiate/change Bluetooth pairing, if the state of the firmware somehow gets in a mucked-up state and they need to be flashed. The only possible way to recover broken AirPods is via tethered recovery. An iPhone is the opp…

> if the state of the firmware somehow gets in a mucked-up state and they need to be flashed. The only possible way to recover broken AirPods is via tethered recovery.

There is no process to reflash AirPods, at least one known outside of Apple's official repair channel.

But there's also no way you can diagnose you _need_ such a software recovery mechanism.

USB-C might help if there was a feature to trigger a firmware update, but there is not.

> [iPhone is] almost capable enough (again, in theory) to be used for standalone debugging of its own hardware faults (like you'd do with a PC using a live USB image.) For 99% of faults, an iPhone should be capable of non-tethered recovery — if Apple would just write the firmware so as to enable that.

Sort of. Any diagnostic and recovery tools available at boot time are going to be designed to be non-privileged, so there are a number of things (such as validating the integrity of the encrypted user data partition) that just aren't going to be possible. That locks you down to basically rudimentary hardware validation, but a consumer and even authorized apple repair are unlikely to be able to fix hardware issues that interfere with the main OS boot but allow a recovery process to boot.

Re: Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

#107

Post by dwaite »

cdchn wrote: post #35
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #8

This is presumably in preparation for removing USB-C next year?

I think a big part of the reason (maybe the only reason?) they went to USB-C is because they were legally compelled to by European regulations, not sure if they can then about-face on that just by removing the port.

The problem is that other than faster charging, the vast majority of people would not see USB-C as an upgrade, and instead a play to make them buy new cables and chargers. Even though Apple had switched over to exclusively bundling USB-C to lightning cables with the iPhone 11 (2019) and usb-c to MagSafe for Apple Watch Series 7 (2021), a USB-C port on the device does not in itself provide a clear advantage for migration - Apple switching could just be seen as a play to get everyone to buy new cables and chargers.

Even after the switch to USB-C, it blows my relatives' minds when I explained you could plug a USB flash drive into the phone directly. It is just a charging hole for most.

My hypothesis is that they were already planning to go to USB-C on the pro models last year an then trickle it down to the base model 1-2 years following - the SoC was updated with USB 3 features like 10 Gbps data transfer and DP alt mode, and they had software features like capturing 4k video directly to a connected external SSD. The base 15 was left on an older SoC due to cost/yields at TSMC.

Europe may have moved them to upgrade the base model 1-2 years earlier. However, by doing such a migration "begrudgingly" Apple got to use Europe as a little bit of a scapegoat in the press. The forced migration is the answer to the upset questions about the migrating generating a lot of e-waste in terms of obsolete cable and accessories, and in the consumer cost of upgrading a decade of old chargers and lightning cables around their homes, vehicles, offices, etc.

Re: Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

#108

Post by dwaite »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #87
Jtsummers wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> think a big part of the reason (maybe the only reason?) they went to USB-C is because they were legally compelled to by European regulations It wasn't the only reason, it was inevitable even without the regulations. They'd already switched their laptops to USB-C in 2015 (?), and the iPad in 2018. The phones and some accessories (keyboards, mice, charging cases for AirPods and such) were the last remaining Lightning…

They didn't switch normal iPads until 2022. I really don't understand the argument that it was inevitable when they spent more than five years shipping lightning on phones and most iPads and USB-C on laptops. Maybe they would have switched on their own, maybe not. But they were clearly not just moving USB-C through their product line piece by piece, or everything would have had it many years earlier.

Apple started shipping exclusively USB-C cables/chargers with iPhones with the 11 in 2019. There's certainly a case to be made that they should have done that earlier (iPhone X or even back with the iPhone 7).

It is perhaps worth noting that the USB-IF and Apple had a "complex" relationship for many years, and to this day Apple still doesn't sell a single 1st party device or cable which is USB certified.

Re: Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

#109

Post by dwaite »

Jtsummers wrote: post #93
Dylan16807 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't switch normal iPads until 2022. I really don't understand the argument that it was inevitable when they spent more than five years shipping lightning on phones and most iPads and USB-C on laptops. Maybe they would have switched on their own, maybe not. But they were clearly not just moving USB-C through their product line piece by piece, or everything would have had it many years earlier.

There are really only six options: 1. Keep using Lightning 2. Update Lightning 3. Switch to another proprietary connector 4. Switch to a standard but non-USB-C connector 5. Switch to full wireless 6. Switch to USB-C (1) Makes no sense, they were going to switch to something eventually. If anyone doubts that and thinks Lightning was going to stick around forever, they don't live in the real world. It's so far from rea…

> (6) is the most sensible option followed by (2). (2) should have happened years ago if it was in their plans. The regulations may have moved up the timeline, but it didn't change what was going to happen.

It did happen. They added USB 3 5Gbps speed to the lightning port on the 2015 iPad Pro, requiring the lightning to usb 3 camera connector kit.

In 2019, they bundled usb-c to lightning cabling and a usb-c charger with the iPhone 11 and 11 pro. The hardware was updated to support USB-PD, and the USB-C to Lightning cables increased the max wattage over the USB-A variants from 18W to 30W.

But outside pro usage, the port doesn't need USB 3 speeds - in fact, unless they purchased an external hard disk I don't believe most people own a cable capable of USB 3 data speeds. The biggest benefit is Amazon gets to sell a charging cable that costs a few cents less to produce.

Re: Bricked iPhone 16 Can Be Restored Wirelessly Using Another iPhone

#110

Post by xandrius »

dwaite wrote: post #99
xandrius wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is a brick until you figure a way to fix it. I thought I bricked my old phone but it turns out I just needed to open the phone, short a couple of pins 5-10 times and trying to quickly boot into flashboot, repeat if it didn't work. It turns out I was a fool thinking that it was bricked after all.

Sure, but shouldn't there be a minimum standard like "the built-in and well-documented recovery process failed?"

Depends on where this process is well-documented: if it is available on iFixit or somewhere super obvious but if I've got to go to xda or some Russian hacking forum, download a bunch of files strictly internal to the company and hope someone made a video about it, then it doesn't matter how "well-documented" it is.

Also it's basically the core of the highly-paid tech expert meme "not paid for turning the screw but to know which screw to turn".

If the issue is not easily troubleshootable and searchable then the keyword for it if the device doesn't reach stage X of boot will always be "bricked".

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