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Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

motor1.com

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Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#341

Post by dahart »

_yb2s wrote: post #335
dahart wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The base model Cayenne takes almost 6 seconds to get to 60mph when floored. That’s not particularly fast, even by family SUV standards, it’s comparable to a Honda Passport, and slower than SUVs from Audi, BMW, and Ford, and quite a few others. The Cayenne is an SUV in the first place. What exactly is a publicly available SUV if not a general purpose family commuter car? One of my friends bought a Cayenne to shuttle h…

The Cayenne (and also the VW Touareg which is it based on) is an offroad exotic supercar platform from the bottom up- the handling, engineering, etc. is really unique. It is also, by now, and outdated design that is over 20 years old and not changed very much. It is also a very heavy vehicle with a suspension and chassis that can survive hard offroad racing- jumping it large distances, and landing it hard, etc. The f…

> Improved fuel efficiency is also a selling point, but not the main one.

Great, this new claim isn’t wrong, so now we agree. ;)

The base model Cayenne can’t do any of the stuff you described, you’re talking about race-equipped cars, which isn’t what Porsche is selling at the base model. You could argue the exact same thing about almost any car manufacturer; most of them compete in track and off-road races. Subaru would be a great example- their consumer cars share design elements of their rally cars. That doesn’t mean an Outback is an exotic supercar, just like it doesn’t mean that a base Cayenne is either exotic or a supercar. In fact, it’s not. The lowest 2 Macan models are even slower than the base Cayenne. These are just “nice” cars, compared to cheaper brands of family SUV commuters, not high performance cars.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#342

Post by smileysteve »

smileysteve wrote: post #169
cbeach wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> performance cars should have ICEs After driving a fast Tesla, stepping into an ICE performance car feels like going back to a steam engine. A very slow, unresponsive steam engine. When avid petrolheads try a fast EV and feel the instant torque it will be an epiphany for them. Only the most stubborn will stick with fossil cars.

I was at a local track in my older bmw (non M), a Tesla 3 (on lowered springs) was next to me in the grid. It did not compete with the corvettes or Porsches but with the Miatas and Me, it just weighed too much in the turns to carry the speed.

The owner, who also tracks a Corvette, said he might upgrade the shocks next. I imagine sway bars could help too.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#343

Post by tempestn »

jamescmartinez wrote: post #332
digga3000 wrote: post #330

This article has brought out a lot people to comment who don't know anything about sports cars, but feel necessary to insist they do. It's bad enough that I had to login in to dispell this reoccurring canard: "EVs are faster in a straight line! EVs have a flat/high torque curve!" -- big whoop. 1) 0-60 times are biased against ICEs as their torque curves _aren't_ flat and so the start of range is mostly when the engin…

Your second point misses an important fact: the Tesla Model S Plaid set a 7:25 Nurburgring lap time, and the Porsche Taycan did it in 7:07. Both of these lap times are faster than many high-performance ICE cars, and close to GT2/3 times which are just below 7:00. As you might expect, the technology will continue to evolve, too.

True, but you do still feel the weight. Even with good tires, they give up time around the corners and make it back with insane acceleration. That's why you generally see hybrids for the most extreme hypercars, at least over the past decade or two. They have most of the advantage of electric without the weight penalty. (I own and track both ICE and electric cars and find both have advantages and disadvantages.)

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#344

Post by fennecbutt »

digga3000 wrote: post #330

This article has brought out a lot people to comment who don't know anything about sports cars, but feel necessary to insist they do. It's bad enough that I had to login in to dispell this reoccurring canard: "EVs are faster in a straight line! EVs have a flat/high torque curve!" -- big whoop. 1) 0-60 times are biased against ICEs as their torque curves _aren't_ flat and so the start of range is mostly when the engin…

Lmao, so basically you dislike EVs and are an ice fan.

The truth of the matter is that EVs win out in so many categories already and are improving year on year.

2: batteries are getting lighter and more energy dense. Your point is essentially moot in an era where everyone is buying giant trucks and SUVs anyway, that they drive with a single occupant to the supermarket to pick up a sandwich.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#345

Post by fennecbutt »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #284
mpol wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since hybrids are now so popular, rethinking how a gasoline engine fits into that picture might be worth it. Question is whether the market will shift again from hybrids to full EV, and if so, when. Designing and building a new engine might cost 5 billion, without a real certainty you will earn it back.

BEVs will never take over in North America. There are too many people spread out or living in places with no hope of charging infrastructure. People are going to balk when they find out they can only charge from a 20A circuit if even that is available.

This just in, houses in the world's greatest country don't have electricity. Really?

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#346

Post by tonyedgecombe »

LightBug1 wrote: post #207
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the line then? If I spend the week jetting across the Atlantic but then take a reusable bag to the supermarket am I an environmentalist?

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Where do you draw the line then?

I'll note I've seen people struggling across the supermarket carpark to avoid buying a plastic bag only to get in a giant SUV. It's a form of moral licensing[1], there is a huge amount of dissonance around environmental issues.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#347

Post by LightBug1 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #203
tirant wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to whom? I am also an environmentalist and burn some fuel from time to time, I’m not a zealot. For me to operate and support the environment the best I can I also need to be mentally fit and have life enjoinment. And riding my old classic carbureted Triumph helps me with that.

According to my dictionary an environmentalist is "a person who is interested in or studies the environment and who tries to protect it from being damaged by human activities" . I can't see how buying a Porsche (or any car really) is compatible with that.

That's a bit like saying, I'm pro athlete (or even just very health conscious), but going out for a night out with my friends to a fast food joint is not compatible with that.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#348

Post by LightBug1 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #346
LightBug1 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Where do you draw the line then? I'll note I've seen people struggling across the supermarket carpark to avoid buying a plastic bag only to get in a giant SUV. It's a form of moral licensing[1], there is a huge amount of dissonance around environmental issues. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing

I'll agree on that example. But that's different to what's been discussed in this thread.

A sports car, used fairly sparingly for fun, and not a daily driver - is different to the horrible trend of daily driving done via ugly, honkingly big SUV's.

There's a line somewhere out there that enables humanity to have fun and not destroy the planet ... probably related to the 80/20 rule.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#349

Post by cwillu »

digga3000 wrote: post #330

This article has brought out a lot people to comment who don't know anything about sports cars, but feel necessary to insist they do. It's bad enough that I had to login in to dispell this reoccurring canard: "EVs are faster in a straight line! EVs have a flat/high torque curve!" -- big whoop. 1) 0-60 times are biased against ICEs as their torque curves _aren't_ flat and so the start of range is mostly when the engin…

You logged in to dispell a point that doesn't occur in this comment section…?

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#350

Post by soco »

jamescmartinez wrote: post #332
digga3000 wrote: post #330

This article has brought out a lot people to comment who don't know anything about sports cars, but feel necessary to insist they do. It's bad enough that I had to login in to dispell this reoccurring canard: "EVs are faster in a straight line! EVs have a flat/high torque curve!" -- big whoop. 1) 0-60 times are biased against ICEs as their torque curves _aren't_ flat and so the start of range is mostly when the engin…

Your second point misses an important fact: the Tesla Model S Plaid set a 7:25 Nurburgring lap time, and the Porsche Taycan did it in 7:07. Both of these lap times are faster than many high-performance ICE cars, and close to GT2/3 times which are just below 7:00. As you might expect, the technology will continue to evolve, too.

To keep the comparisons honest, I honestly couldn't care less about the performances of Taycan. That's not what I drive and that's not what everybody on my roads drive. Yeah maybe I see one hypercar a week but I definitely won't keep that as the bar for driving behaviour. So maybe we should compare between (pick your specific models) Dacia and Toyota?
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