Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live • Hacker News Board

Re: Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live

#21

Post by bowsamic » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 6:07 PM UTC

S0y wrote: post #11

yungporko wrote: post #10

somebody please make a plugin version of operator for both windows and mac, there are zero good options for fm synth plugins in 2024 except for sytrus on windows if they even still sell it. exacoustics GHOST is looking very promising though, just still in its teething stages

Is Dexed not good? https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/

Dexed is good but it's primarily a DX7 including all the weird preset algorithm choices and that's not really necessary if you aren't using DX7 presets. It's a DX7 emulator, not really jsut an FM synth for its own sake like Operator is

Re: Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live

#22

Post by _DeadFred_ » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 6:10 PM UTC

yungporko wrote: post #10

somebody please make a plugin version of operator for both windows and mac, there are zero good options for fm synth plugins in 2024 except for sytrus on windows if they even still sell it. exacoustics GHOST is looking very promising though, just still in its teething stages

Not a fan of F 'em by Tracktion?

https://www.tracktion.com/products/f-em

Re: Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live

#23

Post by tech_ken » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 7:05 PM UTC

If you're interested in the qualitative distinction between subtractive and additive synthesis this is a fun practical example of why you might use the latter that I like a lot (implemented in operator no less :) )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYVsS_X17bM

Re: Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live

#24

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 7:35 PM UTC

1zael wrote: post #17

Ableton is an epitome of software design innovation. I think few people understand how groundbreaking the Session View vs Arrangement View design was to advance the workflow of both produced and live music. Subcomponents like Operator created design patterns that are widely adopted by most VSTs today. Kudos to the Ableton team for crafting a product that is so beloved.

Not just groundbreaking, but zeitgeist shaping.

Session View (aka "clip launching") represents more than just a workflow - it represents an idea of what music is.

Some people might want to spend their time arguing over whether or how much or when that idea is correct. I'd prefer to note that in the 25 or so years since its debut, the idea has reshaped so much contemporary music whether it is correct or not.

The idea that you build up music out of sections that potentially repeat, then move on to another section ... it all seems so obvious to us techno-centric geeks. It actually isn't how most of the world has traditionally conceived of music, but the language that has been traditionally used has often had a structure that has made it easy to strip out the complexities, and the result is ... Ableton Live's Session View.

Re: Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live

#25

Post by sutra_on » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 7:52 PM UTC

1zael wrote: post #17

Ableton is an epitome of software design innovation. I think few people understand how groundbreaking the Session View vs Arrangement View design was to advance the workflow of both produced and live music. Subcomponents like Operator created design patterns that are widely adopted by most VSTs today. Kudos to the Ableton team for crafting a product that is so beloved.

The interesting thing about that is that no one in my (limited) experience uses the session view as it was intended to be used for music composition. After trying it for a bit, everyone seems to revert back to using the linear Arrangement view. Session view is still useful in some performance cases, but it makes me wonder if it would make sense to have it as an optional view, and not as the default view for all sessions.

Re: Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live

#26

Post by sutra_on » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 7:56 PM UTC

yungporko wrote: post #10

somebody please make a plugin version of operator for both windows and mac, there are zero good options for fm synth plugins in 2024 except for sytrus on windows if they even still sell it. exacoustics GHOST is looking very promising though, just still in its teething stages

In the sense of having a simple UI? Both Dexed and FM8 are excellent FM synths, admittedly with a more cluttered UI.

Re: Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live

#27

Post by marpstar » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 8:08 PM UTC

sutra_on wrote: post #25

1zael wrote: post #17

Ableton is an epitome of software design innovation. I think few people understand how groundbreaking the Session View vs Arrangement View design was to advance the workflow of both produced and live music. Subcomponents like Operator created design patterns that are widely adopted by most VSTs today. Kudos to the Ableton team for crafting a product that is so beloved.

The interesting thing about that is that no one in my (limited) experience uses the session view as it was intended to be used for music composition. After trying it for a bit, everyone seems to revert back to using the linear Arrangement view. Session view is still useful in some performance cases, but it makes me wonder if it would make sense to have it as an optional view, and not as the default view for all sessi…

Very interesting. When my buddies and I started playing in Ableton after years in Adobe Audition (circa 2010?), we immersed ourselves in Session view for writing and piecing everything together, building songs top-down instead of left-to-right. It completely changed our entire workflows, and that seemed like the point.

I'm only ever in arrangement view when I'm finalizing the order of the sections before final mix down.

Re: Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live

#28

Post by BodyCulture » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 8:21 PM UTC

1zael wrote: post #17

Ableton is an epitome of software design innovation. I think few people understand how groundbreaking the Session View vs Arrangement View design was to advance the workflow of both produced and live music. Subcomponents like Operator created design patterns that are widely adopted by most VSTs today. Kudos to the Ableton team for crafting a product that is so beloved.

If only it finally was available for Linux!

Re: Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live

#29

Post by NikkiA » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 8:22 PM UTC

yungporko wrote: post #10

somebody please make a plugin version of operator for both windows and mac, there are zero good options for fm synth plugins in 2024 except for sytrus on windows if they even still sell it. exacoustics GHOST is looking very promising though, just still in its teething stages

There are hundreds of 4-op FM synths in plugin format, one of them will surely resemble your preferences.

Re: Twenty Years of FM Synthesis Inside Ableton Live

#30

Post by BodyCulture » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 8:24 PM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #24

1zael wrote: post #17

Ableton is an epitome of software design innovation. I think few people understand how groundbreaking the Session View vs Arrangement View design was to advance the workflow of both produced and live music. Subcomponents like Operator created design patterns that are widely adopted by most VSTs today. Kudos to the Ableton team for crafting a product that is so beloved.

Not just groundbreaking, but zeitgeist shaping. Session View (aka "clip launching") represents more than just a workflow - it represents an idea of what music is . Some people might want to spend their time arguing over whether or how much or when that idea is correct. I'd prefer to note that in the 25 or so years since its debut, the idea has reshaped so much contemporary music whether it is correct or not. The idea…

And it is stable, this always shocked me when I tried out some other software for music production that it actually crashed and killed my project!

You will not have that bad experience with Ableton!