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Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

nextcloud.com

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Re: Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

#181
post #18

I've been using Nextcloud for some years now. Overall it's an ok replacement for Google Cloud. But for some time now their focus has been on developing features for business collaboration as opposed to personal & family ones. For example, their photo library is quite limited. There's Memories app for Nextcluod, but it isn't much better. I'm in the process of migrating to Immich. Nextcluod notes app on Android has bee…

What don't you like about the Memories app? In my experience Immich is the same thing but less mature and not nicely integrated in Nextcloud.

Re: Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not once had I any serious issues updating when pulling new updated images I've run it for about a year until the upgrade tipped me over. I am sure that correct upgrades (n to n+1) are fine - I tried n to n+2 and instead of explaining to me that this is not possible, Nextcloud explained to me that this is not possible and fucked up big my install. I had to recover from a backup.

So they told you that’s not supported and don’t do it. You then did it and seem surprised at a bad outcome. And you’re blaming the software and/or vendor?

Seriously do you think that for software that manages data the proper way is for someone who starts the upgrade process to say "this is not supported, and now we fucked up your database and you cannot recover from that"? They knew that I was upgrading N+2, this is not a surprise - and I did not realize that upgrading N+2 is not supported.

The proper way would be to abort the upgrade upon discovering that I am going for an unsupported way.

This is not serious software.

Re: Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

#183
Similar to many commenters here, I really want to love nextcloud. It was the very first thing I installed when I built my homelab and it's still running years later. However.

I just plain can't use the thing. The only thing that works well is automatically uploading new photos from my phone. That's it, that's the only thing.

My server is old, yes, but we're still talking about dual 8c/16t Xeons, 128GB RAM, and a 7-disk striped RAID storage. It's no slouch.

I can connect to it with a bleeding edge gaming computer with the latest i9 16 core whatever and a fancy GPU with any browser direct over gigabit Ethernet and it still, somehow, takes a full thirty seconds to show the login page. Clicking on anything in the browser is at minimum a 15 second delay. Trying to browse files takes a good 30 seconds just to switch views to the new folder and another 30-60 to render a plain text list of files. Browsing photos is only slightly slower. I get the exact same level of performance when my client is an ancient first generation i3. It's astonishing, really.

I've debugged this far beyond my abilities and the best I've been able to determine is that the browser is spending most of its time just waiting for the server to respond. The server shows no interesting trends in CPU usage, so I have no clue. I can only assume it's attempting to render server-side on a single thread. Given the poor single thread performance on the Xeon this seems fairly plausible.

But regardless, this is by far the single worst performing website I've ever seen anywhere, ever. We've all seen horrendous single-word-per-page scroll-scroll-scroll slideshow websites that take ages to load. Nextcloud makes those sites look like bare HTML GeoCities pages.

It's atrocious, unacceptable, and unusable. There's no excuse for this.

And yes, I'm using the AIO docker image. I've also tried bare metal installs with the same performance. I've tried a more modern i5 machine. I've eliminated any problems that could be on my part and I'm left with the conclusion that nextcloud is just inexcusably bad.

Which is a damn shame because this is everything I want from self-hosting. I'd love to get my family onto this. Have a central place to share photos and files. Keep everyone's devices backed up in a place I know is safe and secure. But I wouldn't inflict this thing on my worst enemy.

This all sounds like hyperbole, but it truly is the worst of the worst. I have never, since the invention of the internet, seen a website this bad.

Edit: oh and also all of the desktop clients are barely-working garbage. The UX feels like it was designed by aliens who heard about human interfaces in a Chinese-room scenario. Utterly absurd nonstandard unintuitive garbage. The android client isn't much better and the iPhone client is famously broken on purpose.

Re: Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

#184
post #143
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it wants to do everything and does none well On that topic, it’s amusing to see when the “are we a product or a platform?” confusion jumps from its native host (publicly listed tech corps) to FOSS projects – different species altogether. The idea of owning your own server just like any other device like laptops, smartphones and tablets, is just wonderful. But that means Linux! And Linux is absolutely infamous for p…

Maybe I misunderstand what you're suggesting, but aren't containers pretty much that application platform? Or stuff like Helm, when you're talking about larger, more complex deployments? I imagine Nextcloud needs at least a database, web server and the ability to send emails, and possibly some form of backup and high availability if you really want to rely on it. There are a lot of non-trivial ways to skin that cat.

> Maybe I misunderstand what you're suggesting, but aren't containers pretty much that application platform?

That’s right. And for UI, web is the obvious choice. But it’s not an application platform alone. You need at the very least file systems and networking/routing over https and maybe lower level protocol support too, that apps can use/discover without having to have a phd in Linux configuration. But to be truly useful, you need a lot more stuff wrt identity & auth, server-to-server networking, service discovery, cross-app communication, etc. Something more like Dokku probably.

> Or stuff like Helm, when you're talking about larger, more complex deployments?

Well fortunately you don’t need to open the Pandora’s box of consensus problems for a personal node (again like any other device). Also too much Yaml to make it sane probably?

Re: Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

#185

Nextcloud is a nightmare. First if all, it wants to do everything and does none well (or better than specialized apps) Its internals are a shitshow - a question about getting the real IP of the calling client raised a 10 pages discussion where people said "it works" and other days "it does not". The "solution" required you to change a volatile setting within the docker container (and do it again when the container ch…

I agree that it has its problems.

Last week, I noticed that one of my contacts had an invalid date for their birthday. Try as I may, I cannot get Nextcloud to recognize 1/5/2000 as a valid date.

(And no, it's not a localization problem.)

Re: Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've run Nextcloud for almost 3 years now via docker on a vps , it hosts my contacts, calendars and files. There is a apache reverse proxy in front of it, and a postgresql-database in the back. Not once had I any serious issues updating when pulling new updated images. Occasionally it whines about missing indices, but that is easily fixed using the occ command line tool. The clients real IP is forwarded by the proxy.…

> Not once had I any serious issues updating when pulling new updated images I've run it for about a year until the upgrade tipped me over. I am sure that correct upgrades (n to n+1) are fine - I tried n to n+2 and instead of explaining to me that this is not possible, Nextcloud explained to me that this is not possible and fucked up big my install. I had to recover from a backup.

Why did you do that when the instructions say not to?

Re: Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

#187
post #139
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s OCIS now, which is a very good alternative if you’re only looking for a file sync solution (without all the App platform aspects of Nextcloud)

Enterprise focused software written in a meme language. Not interesting.

How about you give it a try first? It uses about 1/4 of resources as Nextcloud in my experience, is a lot faster and has a way nicer UI.

Re: Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

#188

Nextcloud is a nightmare. First if all, it wants to do everything and does none well (or better than specialized apps) Its internals are a shitshow - a question about getting the real IP of the calling client raised a 10 pages discussion where people said "it works" and other days "it does not". The "solution" required you to change a volatile setting within the docker container (and do it again when the container ch…

I found keeping it in docker makes it less of a nightmare, but it's definitely not something I'd trust with anything important.

There's like dozen scenarios where you end up with 0 byte files with no warning, error, etc. Sometimes it's an uploading issue, sometimes it's a syncing issue, etc. And they are still open, mutli-year, issues.

I ran into a version of it where existing uploads were replaced with zero byte versions, so I had to manually run a script to find them and I restore a pervious version. If it tried to do other things, like photos, document editing, collab, etc and did those poorly that would be fine. Failing at the most central task of just storing the data is not. It's still alpha quality, and if one intends to use it, it's critical you setup monitoring infrastructure to ensure file integrity (backups should go without saying).

Re: Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

#189
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a one time $5 fee, integrates with the files app and generally has a few features that are not part of the base OSS app, such as the background syncs. It also sometimes gets affected by bugs that are not do not affect the “vanilla” syncthing, which takes some non-zero time to resolve and which indicate there is some effort going into creating this “port”. That took some time for the dev to create and would take…

I cannot enter into the Apple Developer Program, or I would have released a lot of free builds of f/oss iOS apps already. Sadly Apple requires doxxing yourself to publish apps, which IMO is a human rights violation. You also need to provide a working phone number to be able to install even free apps on a phone or tablet you have already purchased. These policies stand directly in opposition to their stated value that…

If what the Möbius dev did is so easy and they are indeed freeloading, why doesn't anyone replicate it in the open?

It's not because of the forced doxxing, syncthing has a foundation with a legal address and real people, using that info on the app store is a non-issue. It's not because of the $99 fee, syncthing has some cash flow.

It's been 10 years already, so why?

Re: Nextcloud: Open-Source Cloud Apps

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not once had I any serious issues updating when pulling new updated images I've run it for about a year until the upgrade tipped me over. I am sure that correct upgrades (n to n+1) are fine - I tried n to n+2 and instead of explaining to me that this is not possible, Nextcloud explained to me that this is not possible and fucked up big my install. I had to recover from a backup.

Why did you do that when the instructions say not to?

I don't understand why this attitude is so prevalent in the tech industry. The person writing the upgrade script knows if upgrades can't support n+2 jumps and it takes about 30s to build in a check:

    if(target_version > current_version + 1) // not allowed
It's more work to add it to the docs than it is to put a fail-fast check in the upgrade script, so why put it in the docs where 250k+ admins need to be aware of the limitation and avoid it?

It might be creating 100k hours of waste on the sysadmin side to save 30m of work on the dev side. I just don't get it.

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