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WP Engine is not WordPress

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111–120 of 175 posts

Re: WP Engine is not WordPress

#111
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a long rant about how open source is wage theft and value extraction by unscrupulous third parties is built in and unavoidable. How can it be wage theft when people voluntarily contribute to it? If you don't want others to use your software, don't write open source software.

My thoughts were posted in Mastodon: https://chaos.social/@ChuckMcManis/112429390169387783 but the TL;DR is that writing code adds value, and that value will be realized by people who take it for free, even if you don't want them to. From my perspective (not saying its the right one, just one that I've reasoned to) that is theft.

That’s about as much theft as me baking cookies, putting them on the street with a sign „free to take“ and people eating them is theft. Who would expect other people to add cookies and call everyone else thieves? You open source license doesn’t say „you can use it if you contribute“, it says „everyone can use it (as long as they attribute or fulfill some other requirement). How is that theft? You can’t be a thieve if you take something someone else is handing out for free voluntarily.

Re: WP Engine is not WordPress

#112
I would agree if revisions were enabled by default just for posts and pages.

Here’s a common example: you have a blog with 20 pages and 20 custom plugins (quite a standard these days). In a year of hosting that one, you’ll end up with millions of revisions in the database, which is really resource and speed issue for MySQL servers as the developers of WordPress never considered sharding; everything is stuffed into one table, with no indexes by default.

So, usually, the size of the DB and resources to run it go over what you would expect, so naturally, you limit it to a more sane value.

TLDR; In pristine WP env with no plugins unlimited revisions make sense. In a WP with many plugins they don't as other plugins declare them but not use them and thus we end with a system that uses huge amount of resources for nothing.

Oh and revision in WP is not like GIT revision as is full copy of the content.

Re: WP Engine is not WordPress

#113
It’s probably worth mentioning that WP Engine author the _Local_ app https://localwp.com/ which is far and away the best tool to build WP sites errr on your local machine. Then just upload to WP Engine and your are live. This valuable innovation is fueling the growth of WP Engine and makes this a bit of a honey trap.

Personally I’m not convinced that keeping a 100% audit trail for reconstruction of old states is useful in production. It may well be a better trade off to run WordPress code in a leaner way for speed and storage requirements. Since that architecture results in many ways to get the current state from the db there is also a purity argument that the default schema is too denormalised. Discuss…

Re: WP Engine is not WordPress

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The revision system is not (not is it claimed to be) a sacred principle of life, morality, or society at large. It's a core tenet of WordPress.

According to whom? I’ve developed and run Wordpress sites for nearly 15 years and never enabled revisions on a single one. This whole line of thinking—one person defining the “core tenet” or whatever—seems directly contrary to the ethos of open source. If Matt doesn’t think people should be able to turn off revisions, he should put that in the license. Otherwise, users can do what they want and open source leaders sh…

Isn’t it even just a setting they changed? From my understanding they didn’t even change the code, they just changed the setting from the default.

Re: WP Engine is not WordPress

#115

That whole post boils down to Mark & co(s) not having the necessary protections for their product, so they’re left with nothing to do but cry “foul” as a leech non-consensually sucks value from their body of work. (A)GPL provides no protection here. Polyform NonCommercial however does protect against this, because WP Engine would have to pay for the privilege of re-sale. https://polyformproject.org/licenses/noncommer…

> a leech non-consensually sucks value from their body of work

I would argue that releasing your code as open source already is the consent, and you can’t really revoke the consent later (make the license more strict when you already released it). They might not like it now but I wouldn’t call it non-consensually.

Re: WP Engine is not WordPress

#116
post #20

You can’t license software as open source, with a liberal license, and then get angry when someone profits off of it. That is one of the many valid uses. If you don’t want commercial use, license your property with a limited license that meets your expectations.

Not everything that is immoral will necessarily be illegal. We can't legislate morality. The WordPress.org folks seem to be taking a position that WP Engine's behavior is immoral. That doesn't mean that WordPress.org has some duty to attempt to use every governmental remedy at their disposal to prevent WP Engine from taking these (allegedly) immoral actions. Instead, the folks at WordPress.org are attempting to use p…

The post and your comment are missing the argument for why it’s immoral though. Is taking an open source server project and offering paid hosting based on it immoral? Is it only immoral because they changed a setting from the default?

Would it immoral if I offered a paid hosted MySQL server? Would it be immoral if I changed the columns-per-table limit to 100?

Re: WP Engine is not WordPress

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The argument is that private equity will use open source, maximize profits from the Labour open source volunteers have done, and minimize costs wherever they can. Then why isn't WordPress.com completely obliterating WP Engine in sales? Surely if the argument is that WP Engine is bad and cutting corners, and they have their own first party commercial offering, that first party offering is so good that nobody thinks…

Because the market is stupid. Worse is better, planned obsolescence, clickbait, fast fashion; the free market is full of failures. It's not good enough for a competitor to Google's search engine to be 30% better, it needs to be 10x better in order to compete.

[deleted]

Re: WP Engine is not WordPress

#118
post #65

A more accurate and even more confusing statement would be “Wordpress is not Wordpress” which is a reality that I’ve had to explain to clients (in a former life) countless times. “But when I go to Wordpress.com…” SORRY, forget everything you saw there, that’s not Wordpress. Same logo? Yes. Branding? Yes. Company? Yes. But it’s not Wordpress. This one setting that WP Engine disables is a shame, but it’s nothing compar…

And github != git, which we're still wrestling with over a decade in to its life. Yet, for some people 'github===git' so that just compounds the issue.

Re: WP Engine is not WordPress

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It's not good enough for a competitor to Google's search engine to be 30% better, it needs to be 10x better in order to compete." This may be so, but there is no competition that's even 10% better than Google. Competition may win on some non-functional requirements, such as privacy (hardly), or UI controls (e.g., silencing certain domains), but that pales in comparison with Google's local search results. And most…

> This may be so, but there is no competition that's even 10% better than Google. It's been more than a decade since google results were distinguishable from bing results. Both spam you with commercial crap. > This may be so, but there is no competition that's even 10% better than Google. Kagi is much better than google. I have no clue what their baseline search quality is like, but I don't care because I can customi…

> how could [Google] know what sort of results i value if they refuse to ask?

They don’t care about the end-user of their search engines. You are not the client – advertisers are. All Google care about is to present search results that maximize revenue for sponsored results.

Re: WP Engine is not WordPress

#120
post #65

A more accurate and even more confusing statement would be “Wordpress is not Wordpress” which is a reality that I’ve had to explain to clients (in a former life) countless times. “But when I go to Wordpress.com…” SORRY, forget everything you saw there, that’s not Wordpress. Same logo? Yes. Branding? Yes. Company? Yes. But it’s not Wordpress. This one setting that WP Engine disables is a shame, but it’s nothing compar…

You just turned off the capital_p_dangit filter!

WordPress ;)

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