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FCC wants all phones unlocked in sixty days, AT&T and T-Mobile aren't so keen

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Re: FCC wants all phones unlocked in sixty days, AT&T and T-Mobile aren't so keen

#91

Post by siskiyou »

acdha wrote: post #71
siskiyou wrote: post #57

Just adding a little bit of context about AT&T: I collect used cell phones, erase them, unlock when possible, and distribute them to unhoused people through several local food shelves, which allows those people to access benefits, housing, health care, jobs, etc which would otherwise be out of reach. With AT&T I can go to their website and unlock an old phone in minutes, allowing them to use a no-cost carrier like QL…

How do they distinguish you from a phone thief? Is there some kind of check with the previous owner?

None of the carriers care if the phone is stolen, unless it's reported as stolen. They only care if it stays on their network. As a practical matter I have to work with the phone's previous owner to erase it (eg, an Apple phone that's been associated with an iCloud account, or a Samsung phone associated with a Samsung account). The carrier lock only matters after I've gone to the trouble of erasing it since I won't distribute a phone that hasn't been erased.

Re: FCC wants all phones unlocked in sixty days, AT&T and T-Mobile aren't so keen

#93

Post by az226 »

486sx33 wrote: post #3
jalk wrote: post #2

Can't the operators just sell unlocked phones with monthly installments instead? The installment plan will then include free service for some amount of data/minutes. If the user chooses to switch operator, they are still bound by the installment contract to pay off the phone.

Yes, but let’s just say you got a 1200 device and only made the first two payments… jump to another carrier and abandon the one with the finance plan. What’s the recourse for the carrier?

So make the device unlocked with the ability to lock it back if you fail to make the payments.

Re: FCC wants all phones unlocked in sixty days, AT&T and T-Mobile aren't so keen

#94

Post by scarface_74 »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #46
jalk wrote: post #2

Can't the operators just sell unlocked phones with monthly installments instead? The installment plan will then include free service for some amount of data/minutes. If the user chooses to switch operator, they are still bound by the installment contract to pay off the phone.

I think the manufacturers should do the payment plans. Then carriers can be selected on basis of quality for customer over lock in effect

You can with Apple.

Re: FCC wants all phones unlocked in sixty days, AT&T and T-Mobile aren't so keen

#95

Post by scarface_74 »

toast0 wrote: post #29
486sx33 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but let’s just say you got a 1200 device and only made the first two payments… jump to another carrier and abandon the one with the finance plan. What’s the recourse for the carrier?

Credit reporting and collections. There's a reason carriers pull credit reports for post paid accounts and 'free' phone promos right? Although, personally, I prefer to be on the prepaid side of the carrier. I'm not getting a promotional phone, and I'm not paying for it in my monthly rate, so if my phone works for more than two years, I'm saving money. And I don't really need to use secret handshake financing... I'd r…

There is no credit check with T-Mobile. In fact, even if you have bad credit, and you have had service with them for a year, you can get a phone on contract.

T-Mobile still finances phones directly and equipment payment plans are clearly separated out from service charges

Re: FCC wants all phones unlocked in sixty days, AT&T and T-Mobile aren't so keen

#96

Post by scarface_74 »

thisislife2 wrote: post #38
FireBeyond wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for nothing, but those devices are generally sold interest free. There's no functional difference between "If you're poor, you should save $50/month for the next 2 years, and when you do that, maybe then you can get that $1200 phone", versus "You can pay $50/month for the next 2 years and get that $1200 phone now", other than bias against the "financially constrained".

It's not "bias", but being financially prudent - when you are financially constrained, you don't need a $1200 phone nor do you need to subscribe to a $50/month plan when cheaper options are available. Depending on your budget, you can get a feature phone for around $50 or a smart phone for around $100, and opt for a prepaid plan (the cheapest of which starts from $15/month with limited data).

You can not fill out job applications or participate in the modern economy with a feature phone

Re: FCC wants all phones unlocked in sixty days, AT&T and T-Mobile aren't so keen

#97

Post by Tempest1981 »

siskiyou wrote: post #91
acdha wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they distinguish you from a phone thief? Is there some kind of check with the previous owner?

None of the carriers care if the phone is stolen, unless it's reported as stolen. They only care if it stays on their network. As a practical matter I have to work with the phone's previous owner to erase it (eg, an Apple phone that's been associated with an iCloud account, or a Samsung phone associated with a Samsung account). The carrier lock only matters after I've gone to the trouble of erasing it since I won't d…

Reminded me of this YouTuber who bought 10 stolen iPhones for $1000:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26bdjJqWdCo (prepare for hundreds of jump cuts)

Re: FCC wants all phones unlocked in sixty days, AT&T and T-Mobile aren't so keen

#98

Post by az226 »

amluto wrote: post #82
which wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FCC is proposing unlocks for phones that are not completely paid for yet. No one is against unlocking paid for phones. The lock is basically the only recourse the carrier has for nonpayment because blacklisting the IMEI doesn't matter if the phone goes to another country. I don't think you can relock a phone once it's unlocked, and the crooks typically make 1 or 2 payments which would cover the 60 days so by the…

This is pretty weak. For example: 1. Carrier locks prevent dual-SIM use where one SIM belongs to the locked carrier and the other does not. This is of no value for preventing unpaid phones from being taken overseas but has plenty of value for locking paying users in. 2. Carrier locks require a communication channel from the carrier to the lock database to the phone. With iPhones, for example, the whole mechanism is m…

100%. Basically allow the phone to be unlocked unless it goes into default, then it gets relocked until out of default.

Re: FCC wants all phones unlocked in sixty days, AT&T and T-Mobile aren't so keen

#99

Post by aftbit »

I'm always mildly annoyed that "Unlocked" can mean three different things with phones:

* Able to be used on any carrier (i.e. no SIM lock)

* Able to be rooted/jailbroken (i.e. no bootloader root of trust lock)

* Able to be accessed (i.e. no screen lock)

This article is talking about the first one. There isn't much confusion possible in the title, especially with the dissenting carrier names highlighted.

Re: FCC wants all phones unlocked in sixty days, AT&T and T-Mobile aren't so keen

#100

Post by siskiyou »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #97
siskiyou wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the carriers care if the phone is stolen, unless it's reported as stolen. They only care if it stays on their network. As a practical matter I have to work with the phone's previous owner to erase it (eg, an Apple phone that's been associated with an iCloud account, or a Samsung phone associated with a Samsung account). The carrier lock only matters after I've gone to the trouble of erasing it since I won't d…

Reminded me of this YouTuber who bought 10 stolen iPhones for $1000: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26bdjJqWdCo (prepare for hundreds of jump cuts)

So far I have never handled a stolen phone as far as I know so I don't know much about that angle. What I get are peoples old iPhone 7's that have been sitting in a drawer for a few years. They are eager to donate them but have no idea how to get their personal data off them, so the work I do is sitting down with them and walking them through the process. I would say that's about 1 hour per phone including getting to and from the donor, teaching them how to reset their iCloud account password (or Samsung account, whatever) to erase the phone. When I get a carrier locked phone I sell it on eBay and buy an unlocked phone or a bunch of chargers and cables. I'm always happy when the phone is from Verizon or was bought unlocked, but AT&T is better than most.
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