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EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

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Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#21

Post by yread »

beeneto wrote: post #19
sasvari wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just that if parliament doesn't ratify ACTA it will be modified (presumably toned down?) and resubmitted ACTA can't be modified anymore, it is signed (yet not ratified in the EU)! Edit: style

Ah okay, so when he says "I would consider proposing some clarifications to ACTA" he's just blowing smoke - talking about making cosmetic statements about ACTA which would encourage parliament to ratify it, but wouldn't actually fix the abuse cases that come from the vague wording?

Whenever I hear a politician talk about "clarifications" alarm bells ring in my head. It basically means changing marketing not the facts.

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#22

Post by ajuc »

LaGrange wrote: post #17
Jacqued wrote: post #10

We clearly need to rebuild European Institutions from the ground up. I'm fully in favor of the European Union as a federal state but to achieve this it is mandatory for the European institutions to stop relying on country representatives or people who were just nominated and rely instead on elected people (and their representatives i.e. a prime minister for the European parliament for example), like in any proper dem…

The problem here is, that while it would increase the democracy of EU, it would also decrease perceived sovereignty of individual countries. A lot of progress in EU seems to be hampered by OMG NATIONAL IDENTITY, actually, and democratization is just one of those.

I don't understand, why having Commision that isn't elected makes EU members more suvereign? What would change for worse, if Commision was elected like Parliament?

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#24

Post by Silhouette »

paol wrote: post #6
Nursie wrote: post #4

The commission needs to be neutered before the EU can be considered truly democratic. The fact that this guy can come straight out and say he's going to ignore court rulings and the democratic will of the elected MEPs with no fear of reprisals, because he's not elected, yet he can hold so much power ... it's sick.

Sadly the parliament is essentially a powerless organ by design. The problem is that the european commission accumulates both executive power and most of the legislative power, where the later should lie with parliament. The end result is that the parliament is basically a farcical attempt to give the appearance of democratic legitimacy to the EU legislative process, but the farce is transparent enough that it just e…

The Parliament is not so impotent since the new codecision rules under the Lisbon Treaty and has been happy to flex its new-found muscles. Moreover, if the responses to my letter to my MEPs on this subject are at all indicative, most or all of the major political groups in Brussels are outright hostile to ACTA at this point.

I suspect De Gucht may have overestimated his influence here. He has also perhaps forgotten that his term of office is not so long and that the European Parliament could even hold up the appointment of the next Commission if it wanted to make a point about abuse of authority. (It did hold up the first Barroso commission in 2004, forcing a reshuffle of which commissioner was given which portfolio, so this is certainly not an idle threat for the Parliament to make, either.)

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#25

Post by Luc »

rwallace wrote: post #13
Angostura wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EP can impeach the Commission - unfortunately only the whole Commission rather than an individual Commissioner.

Sounds like it's time for them to do just that - if this sort of open contempt for the democratic process and the rule of law doesn't qualify as adequate grounds, nothing does. What's the best channel by which to call for that action?

This is just sophistry now. The commissioner is playing the role he's supposed to play in the EU institutions, and I have seen no indication that he's done anything illegal or held the parliament in contempt.

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#26

Post by kalleboo »

Jacqued wrote: post #12
mibbitier wrote: post #7

Good news. Strengthens the case significantly for the EU to be abandoned.

And where would that leave us ? Massive recession in Germany, Bankrupcy for the southern nations, a few hurt nations (France, Italy, others) closing their borders to try to survive on their own, and the UK surviving as a dependency of the US. With fascist parties triumphing everywhere around (they are already doing 20%+ in a lot of countries, there are even nazis in the Greek parliament now). And, of course, global e…

These "facists" and "nazis" are there as a reaction to the EU. They're the only ones people can vote for to express a negative opinion on the EU. If the EU disappears, they'll have survive on their actual ideology instead, and then they'll disappear again.

And regarding the financials, the EEA and Schengen are perfectly fine. Norway, Switzerland etc don't have significantly higher barriers to trade.

Personally I'm pro-european state. But it's dangerous having one as anti-democratic as the current EU, and I don't believe it's possible to change the current one, it needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#27

Post by s4ndb »

Nursie wrote: post #4

The commission needs to be neutered before the EU can be considered truly democratic. The fact that this guy can come straight out and say he's going to ignore court rulings and the democratic will of the elected MEPs with no fear of reprisals, because he's not elected, yet he can hold so much power ... it's sick.

Don't forget about the European Council, the third power base in Europe, by far the strongest, and by far the least public. Could use some serious neutering too.

Of the three power bases, only the parliament is democratic, and it has almost no powers. I agree. The way we do politics in Europe, birthplace of democracy, is just sick.

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#28

Post by paol »

ajuc wrote: post #22
LaGrange wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is, that while it would increase the democracy of EU, it would also decrease perceived sovereignty of individual countries. A lot of progress in EU seems to be hampered by OMG NATIONAL IDENTITY, actually, and democratization is just one of those.

I don't understand, why having Commision that isn't elected makes EU members more suvereign? What would change for worse, if Commision was elected like Parliament?

The commission basically represents the governments of the individual member countries. Because it has the most power by far of all the european institutions, this means that the governments in turn can exercise power at the EU level in a fairly unimpeded fashion.

If the legislative power were transferred away from the commission to the parliament (where it should be, if EU governance were to follow the standard approach for separation of powers), the individual member states would lose a lot of control. Control they aren't at all interested in relinquishing, as you may imagine.

And that's before even considering making the executive branch (the commission) directly elected.

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#29

Post by webreac »

Nursie wrote: post #18
beeneto wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't say he'd ignore court rulings. He told the trade committee (which isn't a court AFAIK) that advising against ACTA wouldn't stop the European court of justice from investigating its legality.

He mentioned that he would try to weasel his way around it - "If the Court questions the conformity of the agreement with the Treaties we will assess at that stage how this can be addressed."

In fact this guy clarified the rules he must follow.
Sadly, the parliament decision has no influence on his work.

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#30

Post by gioele »

ajuc wrote: post #20
Jacqued wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where would that leave us ? Massive recession in Germany, Bankrupcy for the southern nations, a few hurt nations (France, Italy, others) closing their borders to try to survive on their own, and the UK surviving as a dependency of the US. With fascist parties triumphing everywhere around (they are already doing 20%+ in a lot of countries, there are even nazis in the Greek parliament now). And, of course, global e…

Which are these fascist parties in Europe? Seriously, I live in Europe and never seen any. In most EU countries propagating nazi ideology is criminal offense.

Search for "party" in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-nazism , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neo-Nazi_organizations and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-fascism . Every European country has a nation-wide neo-fascist party and almost all the parliaments of south-Europe have MPs who publicly stated their fascist ideology.

The latest to win seats in parliament is the Greek Golden Dawn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Dawn_(Greece)

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