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EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

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Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#11

Post by sasvari »

beeneto wrote: post #8

Since I know techdirt always reports aggressively in favour of internet freedom I read the direct quotes first and the techdirt commentary afterwards. From just the quotes, Karel De Gucht doesn't seem to be saying anything underhanded, just that if parliament doesn't ratify ACTA it will be modified (presumably toned down?) and resubmitted. I don't think techdirt's message "The european government is a corrupt puppet!…

just that if parliament doesn't ratify ACTA it will be modified (presumably toned down?) and resubmitted

ACTA can't be modified anymore, it is signed (yet not ratified in the EU)!

Edit: style

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#12

Post by Jacqued »

mibbitier wrote: post #7

Good news. Strengthens the case significantly for the EU to be abandoned.

And where would that leave us ?

Massive recession in Germany, Bankrupcy for the southern nations, a few hurt nations (France, Italy, others) closing their borders to try to survive on their own, and the UK surviving as a dependency of the US. With fascist parties triumphing everywhere around (they are already doing 20%+ in a lot of countries, there are even nazis in the Greek parliament now).

And, of course, global economy hurting like never before, since a majority of it still happens in good ol Europe.

Yup. Let's kill the EU.

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#13

Post by rwallace »

Angostura wrote: post #9
paol wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly the parliament is essentially a powerless organ by design. The problem is that the european commission accumulates both executive power and most of the legislative power, where the later should lie with parliament. The end result is that the parliament is basically a farcical attempt to give the appearance of democratic legitimacy to the EU legislative process, but the farce is transparent enough that it just e…

The EP can impeach the Commission - unfortunately only the whole Commission rather than an individual Commissioner.

Sounds like it's time for them to do just that - if this sort of open contempt for the democratic process and the rule of law doesn't qualify as adequate grounds, nothing does.

What's the best channel by which to call for that action?

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#14

Post by Nursie »

beeneto wrote: post #8

Since I know techdirt always reports aggressively in favour of internet freedom I read the direct quotes first and the techdirt commentary afterwards. From just the quotes, Karel De Gucht doesn't seem to be saying anything underhanded, just that if parliament doesn't ratify ACTA it will be modified (presumably toned down?) and resubmitted. I don't think techdirt's message "The european government is a corrupt puppet!…

Not really, my understanding is that the treaty text is now set in stone, so he can't really do more than embellish it, hence all the talk of clarification. If the text is to be altered then it has to go back to international negotiations again, which throws the whole process out by several years. AFAICT.

While it's not evidence that the whole system is corrupt, it is yet another in the list of examples of the appointed commission attempting to push things past the elected house via subterfuge or repeated attempts, and it leaves a bad taste.

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#15

Post by beeneto »

Nursie wrote: post #4

The commission needs to be neutered before the EU can be considered truly democratic. The fact that this guy can come straight out and say he's going to ignore court rulings and the democratic will of the elected MEPs with no fear of reprisals, because he's not elected, yet he can hold so much power ... it's sick.

He didn't say he'd ignore court rulings. He told the trade committee (which isn't a court AFAIK) that advising against ACTA wouldn't stop the European court of justice from investigating its legality.

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#16

Post by paol »

Jacqued wrote: post #10

We clearly need to rebuild European Institutions from the ground up. I'm fully in favor of the European Union as a federal state but to achieve this it is mandatory for the European institutions to stop relying on country representatives or people who were just nominated and rely instead on elected people (and their representatives i.e. a prime minister for the European parliament for example), like in any proper dem…

I would love to see things move in this direction. Unfortunately we are in the minority (even among those who self-describe as pro-european).

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#17

Post by LaGrange »

Jacqued wrote: post #10

We clearly need to rebuild European Institutions from the ground up. I'm fully in favor of the European Union as a federal state but to achieve this it is mandatory for the European institutions to stop relying on country representatives or people who were just nominated and rely instead on elected people (and their representatives i.e. a prime minister for the European parliament for example), like in any proper dem…

The problem here is, that while it would increase the democracy of EU, it would also decrease perceived sovereignty of individual countries.

A lot of progress in EU seems to be hampered by OMG NATIONAL IDENTITY, actually, and democratization is just one of those.

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#18

Post by Nursie »

beeneto wrote: post #15
Nursie wrote: post #4

The commission needs to be neutered before the EU can be considered truly democratic. The fact that this guy can come straight out and say he's going to ignore court rulings and the democratic will of the elected MEPs with no fear of reprisals, because he's not elected, yet he can hold so much power ... it's sick.

He didn't say he'd ignore court rulings. He told the trade committee (which isn't a court AFAIK) that advising against ACTA wouldn't stop the European court of justice from investigating its legality.

He mentioned that he would try to weasel his way around it -

"If the Court questions the conformity of the agreement with the Treaties we will assess at that stage how this can be addressed."

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#19

Post by beeneto »

sasvari wrote: post #11
beeneto wrote: post #8

Since I know techdirt always reports aggressively in favour of internet freedom I read the direct quotes first and the techdirt commentary afterwards. From just the quotes, Karel De Gucht doesn't seem to be saying anything underhanded, just that if parliament doesn't ratify ACTA it will be modified (presumably toned down?) and resubmitted. I don't think techdirt's message "The european government is a corrupt puppet!…

just that if parliament doesn't ratify ACTA it will be modified (presumably toned down?) and resubmitted ACTA can't be modified anymore, it is signed (yet not ratified in the EU)! Edit: style

Ah okay, so when he says "I would consider proposing some clarifications to ACTA" he's just blowing smoke - talking about making cosmetic statements about ACTA which would encourage parliament to ratify it, but wouldn't actually fix the abuse cases that come from the vague wording?

Re: EU Commissioner Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By EU Parliament

#20

Post by ajuc »

Jacqued wrote: post #12
mibbitier wrote: post #7

Good news. Strengthens the case significantly for the EU to be abandoned.

And where would that leave us ? Massive recession in Germany, Bankrupcy for the southern nations, a few hurt nations (France, Italy, others) closing their borders to try to survive on their own, and the UK surviving as a dependency of the US. With fascist parties triumphing everywhere around (they are already doing 20%+ in a lot of countries, there are even nazis in the Greek parliament now). And, of course, global e…

Which are these fascist parties in Europe? Seriously, I live in Europe and never seen any. In most EU countries propagating nazi ideology is criminal offense.
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