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The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

thewalrus.ca

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Re: The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

#51

Post by wpietri »

skissane wrote: post #4

The other day I was talking to a psychologist about [difficult personal situation which I am unable to discuss publicly] and she said to me “This must be really damaging to your self-worth.” And, my honest internal reaction to her statement (although I didn’t say it out loud to her) was “Self-worth, what is that?” Because I’m not sure if I have any? I don’t mean that in the negative sense that I think I am worthless…

I think there are two ways you can look at it.

One is what I think of as the neurotypical way. They spend a lot of energy on social modeling, on fitting people into hierarchies of privilege. (E.g., "respecting your elders", older sibling vs younger, teachers vs students, the popular kids, and so many other things.) Then in the same way they're judging the worth of others, they fit themselves into the same primate status model.

I think that's what the psychologist is talking about. Personally, I find that way not super useful.

But another way is sort of reverse engineering. From how person X treats themself, what can we learn about how much they value their own self? Like you, I didn't have much of a concept of self-worth in the sense of "where do I place myself in the many hierarchies most people around me are constantly aware of." But a therapist eventually got me to see that I did not treat myself as worth the same as the people around me. Paying attention to that has improved my life a lot.

The big question for me is to what extent the latter thing is influenced by the former. For neurotypical people I gather the link is pretty strong. For me it's definitely a weaker link, but it's hard to tell the difference between "there is no link" and "I don't notice the link".

Re: The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

#52

Post by BadHumans »

wpietri wrote: post #51
skissane wrote: post #4

The other day I was talking to a psychologist about [difficult personal situation which I am unable to discuss publicly] and she said to me “This must be really damaging to your self-worth.” And, my honest internal reaction to her statement (although I didn’t say it out loud to her) was “Self-worth, what is that?” Because I’m not sure if I have any? I don’t mean that in the negative sense that I think I am worthless…

I think there are two ways you can look at it. One is what I think of as the neurotypical way. They spend a lot of energy on social modeling, on fitting people into hierarchies of privilege. (E.g., "respecting your elders", older sibling vs younger, teachers vs students, the popular kids, and so many other things.) Then in the same way they're judging the worth of others, they fit themselves into the same primate sta…

Not a psychologist but I am friends with more than a few. I don't know why you assume the psychologist meant the first because they did not. Self-worth has nothing to do with social hierarchy. It is how you treat yourself and a core thing therapist work on is helping you treat yourself the way you would treat others, with compassion and respect.

Re: The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

#53

Post by limping7092 »

didgetmaster wrote: post #44

Every user on HN has a score (up votes vs down votes) based on reactions to comments and submissions. How many of us will not be our authentic selves in a comment because of fear of how others might react? I know that I have done this.

[flagged]

Re: The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

#54

Post by wpietri »

73kl4453dz wrote: post #25

I guess i am orthogonal to this article because: (A) i don't visit sites that have "Followers" which i can probably afford to do because: (B) unlike writing or waitservice, where one's market is huge numbers of people who each are only willing to pay a little, my skills interest few, but those few are willing to pay a lot.

This is an odd thing to say on a site that depends so heavily on the upvote.

Re: The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

#55

Post by orbisvicis »

skissane wrote: post #4

The other day I was talking to a psychologist about [difficult personal situation which I am unable to discuss publicly] and she said to me “This must be really damaging to your self-worth.” And, my honest internal reaction to her statement (although I didn’t say it out loud to her) was “Self-worth, what is that?” Because I’m not sure if I have any? I don’t mean that in the negative sense that I think I am worthless…

The flip side of detaching self-esteem from technical competency is that you can make very strong assertions without being arrogant.

People of integrity with utilitarian leaning are often labeled amoral or unemotional.

People with a strong drive not attached to financial gain are often termed unambitious.

Your perceived worth really depends on values of society, so if you remove yourself from the equation, you only have no worth to others, not to yourself. Sequestered from others the sense of self has no meaning, so naturally you have no self-worth. Not because you are worthless, but because you have no self and place no importance on your perceived worth.

Or more strongly phrased, what's the point of self-worth if you can do everything you put your mind to?

I'd you can't but think you can, then that's a harmful psychological schism. Since no one person can achieve everything, self-worth is only meaningful in areas for which you lack competency

For example - and this deals not with self-worth but with stress - I'm pretty inflexible in my goals. When I can't meet my goals I tend to shut down. I'm often asked if I'm stressed, to which I can only respond, "Stress - what's that?". And yet clearly I've suffered a harmful schism between my perception of self and reality, as indicated by my lack of stress response.

Re: The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

#56

Post by bbor »

skissane wrote: post #4

The other day I was talking to a psychologist about [difficult personal situation which I am unable to discuss publicly] and she said to me “This must be really damaging to your self-worth.” And, my honest internal reaction to her statement (although I didn’t say it out loud to her) was “Self-worth, what is that?” Because I’m not sure if I have any? I don’t mean that in the negative sense that I think I am worthless…

Interesting! If I said you were bad at your job and an ugly, inattentive partner, would your primary reaction be one of hurt or just one of calculating self-preservation? I would personally feel very emotional if I heard those things from someone in real life, so it’s an honest question.

What emotionally drives you, if not the assessments of your peers? Why excel at work, why find a partner, why do your best to be better everyday? I wish I could say I was driven by rational assessments of my needs as a Homo Sapiens and my moral responsibilities therein, but I think I’d be lying to myself. Or, at least, it’s an eternal struggle to minimize the importance of self-worth.

Re: The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

#57

Post by hermitcrab »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #18
daymanstep wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that "people" tend to be attracted towards things that they think will increase their self worth and avoid things that decreases their self worth. Though from a stoic perspective the only thing that can affect your self worth are your own actions, not external events which you have no control over.

I think most people use other people as a kind of mirror, to try to see who they are and how they fit. (Autists may do it less than others, or even none at all.) If everybody thinks well of me, then I should probably think well of myself. If everyone thinks badly of me, then I'm probably not worth very much. So goes the logic. So social media is tearing up peoples' self image, not just because of put-downs and delibe…

And marketers play on this status anxiety. Just look at pretty much any car ad. The best way to innoculate yourself against this (to an extent anyway) is to learn a bit about marketing and do some marketing. Once you have seen how the sausage is made, it has less power.

Re: The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

#58

Post by maroonblazer »

daymanstep wrote: post #5
skissane wrote: post #4

The other day I was talking to a psychologist about [difficult personal situation which I am unable to discuss publicly] and she said to me “This must be really damaging to your self-worth.” And, my honest internal reaction to her statement (although I didn’t say it out loud to her) was “Self-worth, what is that?” Because I’m not sure if I have any? I don’t mean that in the negative sense that I think I am worthless…

I think the idea is that "people" tend to be attracted towards things that they think will increase their self worth and avoid things that decreases their self worth. Though from a stoic perspective the only thing that can affect your self worth are your own actions, not external events which you have no control over.

And of course from a Buddhist perspective the self is an illusion, making all this 'self-worth' chasing akin to tilting at windmills.

Re: The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

#59

Post by yapyap »

I agree, it’s also the argument that “nothing will change the big picture anyway” when you don’t go to a business with shady business practices.

Or when changing eating habits in general like eating less meat or consuming less dairy.

It’s not entirely about changing the industry, a part of it is just integrity.

Re: The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age

#60

Post by Jordan_Pelt »

herval wrote: post #48
billiardsball wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with the main point you're making, I have to note that likening school playgrounds to markets is a questionable analogy. Schools are far closer to prisons than markets - in fact, I can't come up with a single way that school playgrounds are similar to markets other than the fact that they both involve humans.

how are schools any close to prisons, other than both involving humans?

A chapter in Chemerinsky's casebook on Constitutional law is titled "Speech in Authoritarian Environments: Military, Prisons, and Schools."
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