Know nothing about automobile engineering but somehow this feels like Wordpress releasing a version for DOS when windows already captured most of the PC market.
Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine
211–220 of 367 posts
Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine
#212Know nothing about automobile engineering but somehow this feels like WordPerfect releasing a fantastic version for DOS when Windows was already capturing all the market.
Btw they did that. Rest is history.
Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> Automotive batteries have been demonstrated as >90% recyclable, far better than most materials we consider "recyclable" today such as plastic > Citation needed It shouldn't be hard to believe. The components of a battery aren't consumed during operation. An old battery weighs the same as a new battery, and the chemical reactions taking place inside are reversible (because that's how a chemical battery works). I be…
> in my experience in the US, charging away from home is far more expensive We have lots of free charging points in the UK. Or at least they do around me. > Your statement about your cost comparison doesn't mention maintenance, which is a significant savings. No oil changes, no rusted exhaust pipes, no spark plugs, etc. Over the life of the car, that's tens of thousands of dollars unspent. In my experience the mainte…
> In my experience the maintenance costs is usually more tyres, suspension, breaks, and other similar things that would equally need to be maintained on EVs.
You'll go through tires _slightly_ faster because the cars are heavier. With the exception of some standouts like Tesla's Cybertruck, which reportedly is only getting 6k miles on a set of tires, the wear rate is slightly higher. Low rolling resistance tires are slightly more expensive. Plan on whatever you're paying now plus 20% to cover the difference.
I've never had to change the suspension on any of my cars. I wouldn't even consider it in a maintenance list unless you live somewhere with truly shit roads, but the mileage and repair cost would be the same in EV or ICE.
Brakes last forever in an EV. 100k miles easily.
Oil changes in the US cost $50+, and are done every 3-4k miles (or $75+, 7-10k miles if you choose synthetic oil).
Spark plugs are cheap, but paying someone to replace them is not.
Some EVs have liquid cooling, but it lasts longer than coolant in an ICE.
I'm so used to people around me driving automatics, I forget to consider a clutch - but I get >100k per clutch so it's not a frequent or predictable cost for me.
Most recent cars, even the small ones, seem to have swung back to using timing chains rather than belts, and don't need regular changes. You can consider it if you like, but you have to take it on a case-by-case basis.
Unless you don't keep your cars long enough to notice, your exhaust system will rust. Water is a byproduct of combustion, after all, and steam corrodes faster than liquid water. It's worse if you make lots of short trips - which is where an EV shines.
Also consider non-regularly-replaced things in your maintenance list: oxygen sensors, water pumps, thermostats, heater cores, etc. You can't predict when these things will fail, but over 10 years you'll almost certainly have to replace some of them.
Consider, also, downtime while your car is in the shop getting the work done.
Contrast to an EV: none of that. A new battery in 150k-200k miles for $5k, unless you're still satisfied with the reduced range.
Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
When Porsche says efficiency they mean making more power, not using less fuel. Porsche has a long track record of adopting efficiency tech and using them to make fast cars that still use a ton of fuel.
What’s the difference between getting more power out of a given quantity of fuel, versus using less fuel to achieve a given power output?
Extremely simplified, when you drive a sports car, you want to maximize power (work per unit of time), period, you don’t care about fuel.
If you want to go the farthest with a full tank, you want to maximize the total work (proportionate to traveled distance) for unit of fuel.
Reality for practically all cars are between these two extremes, you want to enjoy driving, go relatively fast, and still not wasting 25 liters for traveling 100 km.
Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
> performance cars should have ICEs After driving a fast Tesla, stepping into an ICE performance car feels like going back to a steam engine. A very slow, unresponsive steam engine. When avid petrolheads try a fast EV and feel the instant torque it will be an epiphany for them. Only the most stubborn will stick with fossil cars.
911 Turbos are faster than Teslas. Regardless, EVs feel like driving a washing machine. Some people are just not into that, or expect more. I’ve never been excited by any EV I sat down in, no matter how quickly they go 0-60.
> 911 Turbos are faster than Teslas.
Nope. Tesla Model S Plaid beats the 911 Turbo S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_car...
Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine
#216Know nothing about automobile engineering but somehow this feels like WordPerfect releasing a fantastic version for DOS when Windows was already capturing all the market. Btw they did that. Rest is history.
Considering that people still love vinyl, automatic watches, fountain pens and hand made notebooks, I think this will still has its niche, and more interesting designs will follow to push the internal combustion engines forward.
On the other hand of the spectrum, Hyundai Ioniq 5 N can emulate a sports car with an internal combustion engine and 8 speed sequential gearbox.
Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine
#217The number of the Porsche patent application:
20240301817
(which can be used on various sites, e.g. https://pat2pdf.org/ to retrieve the document)
Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
What’s the difference between getting more power out of a given quantity of fuel, versus using less fuel to achieve a given power output?
Extremely simplified, when you drive a sports car, you want to maximize power (work per unit of time), period, you don’t care about fuel. If you want to go the farthest with a full tank, you want to maximize the total work (proportionate to traveled distance) for unit of fuel. Reality for practically all cars are between these two extremes, you want to enjoy driving, go relatively fast, and still not wasting 25 liter…
Those are correct statements that don’t answer the question I asked. You’ve explained the difference between not caring about efficiency and caring about efficiency. The article said the 6-stroke design is for “efficiency” and did not say Porsche doesn’t care about fuel and only wants to maximize power, contrary to the comment I replied to above. If an engine gives you more power with a fixed quantify of fuel, then it must also give you less fuel for a given quantity of power, right? There’s no such thing as more efficient only for power.
BTW Porsche makes consumer vehicles, not just race cars. And they make engines for other types of vehicles, not just cars. It’s ridiculous to claim that Porsche doesn’t care about fuel just because they happen to make some race cars. Nothing in the article suggests this design is for a race car, nor would it; a patent is designed to be broadly applicable and if a 6-stroke design is shown to be more efficient than a 4-stroke design for fuel-efficient consumer cars, you can bet Porsche will be happy to sell you the engines or license the design.
Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine
#219If I remember correctly the engine in the Mazda Millenia was a Miller cycle engine and did something unconventional like this. Props to Mazda for trying new stuff.
Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
> in my experience in the US, charging away from home is far more expensive We have lots of free charging points in the UK. Or at least they do around me. > Your statement about your cost comparison doesn't mention maintenance, which is a significant savings. No oil changes, no rusted exhaust pipes, no spark plugs, etc. Over the life of the car, that's tens of thousands of dollars unspent. In my experience the mainte…
> In my experience the maintenance costs is usually more tyres, suspension, breaks, and other similar things that would equally need to be maintained on EVs. You'll go through tires _slightly_ faster because the cars are heavier. With the exception of some standouts like Tesla's Cybertruck, which reportedly is only getting 6k miles on a set of tires, the wear rate is slightly higher. Low rolling resistance tires are…
You’re drastically overstating the differences between ICE and EV there. But that might be a side effect of American cars vs European cars.