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Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

motor1.com

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Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#171

Post by smileysteve »

lb1lf wrote: post #55
cbeach wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> performance cars should have ICEs After driving a fast Tesla, stepping into an ICE performance car feels like going back to a steam engine. A very slow, unresponsive steam engine. When avid petrolheads try a fast EV and feel the instant torque it will be an epiphany for them. Only the most stubborn will stick with fossil cars.

-True, but I believe (at least this holds true for me) - the tinkerability, if you like, of ICEs is much higher. You can work on them at home, install all sorts of modifications and upgrades - real or perceived - to a much larger extent than you (currently) can on your EV. It all depends on what makes cars interesting to you, of course - but a lot of the car enthusiast clientele would merrily start tinkering with the…

You can still modify an electric car's suspension with shocks, springs, anti roll bars, and performance tires.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#172

Post by nottorp »

foobazgt wrote: post #95
nottorp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose you don't know how to drive a manual either :)

I drove stick for a couple of decades. They were fun at the time (except in traffic jams), but I'm no Luddite. I can enjoy being thrown back into my seat with roller coaster acceleration without the accompaniment of vroom vroom noises, exhaust, and shifting.

I did test drive a Tesla and i agree any electric motor does the throwing back better than combustion.

But being thrown back is not the fun part. The fun part is controlling the car around those bends on a mountain road.

Anyone can floor it in a straight line.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#173

Post by thebruce87m »

hnlmorg wrote: post #157
thebruce87m wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will take a long, long time to move to heat pumps for heating the majority of homes. Last time I looked into it I would have to change all the pipes and radiators in my home. Same with my mums house. The savings would have to be massive to offset the disruption and cost.

New houses are being built though. And at an alarming rate in some districts too

New houses also have solar, which can offset some of their new load.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#174

Post by whatevaa »

tirant wrote: post #161
thebruce87m wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I’m always amazed by statements like this. People who have lived through the rollout of the internet to the masses can’t see how we’d modify existing structure to accommodate needs. We had phone lines initially, 20 years later now we have 5G, fibre, satellites. They just dug up…

Not even that: We have managed to extract some dense and flammable black oil hundreds of meters deep under the ocean soil, transport it thousands of km again to remote countries where it is processed and again transported and distributed daily to many storage locations where any layman can again transfer it to their own vehicles. That is a feat. Electricity infrastructure already exists everywhere where we have civil…

500km range cars are still stupidly expensive right now, and the fact that paid chargers are quite expensive compared to home charging remains. This may change in the future, but we live in the present.

People aren't that stupid as you think, you are just ignorant. EV preachers take the easy route and ignore issues which are inconvenient to them, or focus only on home charging.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#175

Post by whatevaa »

JSR_FDED wrote: post #114
jbgt wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may disagree: I live in a flat with a fully electric vehicle. It's just a matter of planning around charging a bit. Once you think ahead (and it's not dramatic), you don't notice anymore. I find plug in hybrids make no sense: electrification is the future.

Really, just a bit of “planning around charging”? The less predictable your life is the less this is an option. The most extreme example of this is Hertz having to walk away from billions invested in 100,000 Teslas. Short term renters simply don’t tolerate the uncertainties that EVs bring.

Maybe this person neighbours a Tesla supercharger, who knows

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#176

Post by quintushoratius »

hnlmorg wrote: post #131
mjamesaustin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these claims are dramatically false. - Electric motors use low amounts of rare earth metals, or in some cases none. Batteries generally don't use them either. - Automotive batteries have been demonstrated as >90% recyclable, far better than most materials we consider "recyclable" today such as plastic - The electric grid has sufficient capacity to onboard millions of electric cars without issue, and will not…

> Electric motors use low amounts of rare earth metals, or in some cases none. Batteries generally don't use them either. Maybe the term “rare” was poorly chosen. But mining those metals is the damaging part, not the abundance of the metals. So my point is still correct. > Automotive batteries have been demonstrated as >90% recyclable, far better than most materials we consider "recyclable" today such as plastic Cita…

>> Automotive batteries have been demonstrated as >90% recyclable, far better than most materials we consider "recyclable" today such as plastic

> Citation needed

It shouldn't be hard to believe. The components of a battery aren't consumed during operation. An old battery weighs the same as a new battery, and the chemical reactions taking place inside are reversible (because that's how a chemical battery works).

I believe, though, the the previous commenter erred. 90% of _batteries_ are recycled.

According to Wikipedia, lithium battery recycling can see up to 96% recovery rate of material. Lead acid is over 98% of the lead.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_recycling

> However if you travel lots and are heavily use charge stations at super markets et al, then EVs will be much cheaper to run than ICE.

This statement is confusing to me.

In my experience in the US, charging away from home is far more expensive.

Charging at home has added an average of $10/month to our electric bill. Charging at a commercial charger can easily cost $5-$10 _per charge_.

At home I have a 3kw charger, one of the lowest options you can buy. I prefer to take time and keep the battery cool. Heat kills batteries faster.

Your statement about your cost comparison doesn't mention maintenance, which is a significant savings. No oil changes, no rusted exhaust pipes, no spark plugs, etc. Over the life of the car, that's tens of thousands of dollars unspent.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#178

Post by rsynnott »

abenga wrote: post #90
thebruce87m wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.edie.net/one-in-seven-new-cars-worldwide-is-now-... > One in seven new car sales worldwide is now electric > Year-to-date figures show that nearly 10.6 million EVs have been sold globally as of July 2024, marking a 16.3% increase compared to the same period last year. What constitutes “walking back”?

> What constitutes “walking back”? Legally+Economically. After seeing how badly their cars were doing against Chinese EVs, it seems the EV-only mandates in the EU and US are on shaky ground; only heavy tariffs on imported cars seem to be giving local producers a chance. I do not think they will figure it out by the 2030-ish targets, and bet that European and American companies will be allowed to sell combustion engin…

The EU and California targets are 2035; not aware of any large market going for a full ban earlier than that?

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#179

Post by tirant »

whatevaa wrote: post #174
tirant wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even that: We have managed to extract some dense and flammable black oil hundreds of meters deep under the ocean soil, transport it thousands of km again to remote countries where it is processed and again transported and distributed daily to many storage locations where any layman can again transfer it to their own vehicles. That is a feat. Electricity infrastructure already exists everywhere where we have civil…

500km range cars are still stupidly expensive right now, and the fact that paid chargers are quite expensive compared to home charging remains. This may change in the future, but we live in the present. People aren't that stupid as you think, you are just ignorant. EV preachers take the easy route and ignore issues which are inconvenient to them, or focus only on home charging.

The average price of a new car sold in Germany for private individuals is 42.000€. Around $47,000 in USA. Prices are even higher if you include company or fleet purchases.

A RWD Model 3 and Model Y with around 500km range is even less than that right now in their available stock.

How can that be stupidly expensive if it’s even below average price?

Street chargers are more expensive than home charging, that is right. However it is still cheaper than gas and diesel by 50-70% by average in mainland Europe.

You can look up facts instead of calling me ignorant.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#180

Post by tuna74 »

Szpadel wrote: post #65
ttwwmm wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I think many of people here live in US and assume that it everywhere things look similar. in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I own plug in hybrid and I live in apartment meaning I have no possibility to charge at home. near me (about 10 min of walking there is public single phase allow charger with 2 plugs machine…

My condo (sort of) put chargers for every parking spot and garage in the whole "complex". Wasn't that expensive and raises the value of the units more than the cost per charger.
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