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Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

motor1.com

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Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#141

Post by hnlmorg »

dyauspitr wrote: post #27
hnlmorg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars still consume fossil fuels. It’s just earlier in the pipeline. People love to talk about combustion engines being pollutants but few people talk about just how damaging it is mining for rare metals to make those batteries. Nor how harmful for the environment it is disposing of old batters (we haven’t yet solved the problem of recycling them either). And that’s before you even touch on problems at the po…

Maybe now they do but once you get everything on the electric standard it’s a matter of gradually switching over to a fully renewable grid.

Oh absolutely. I’m not suggesting we shouldn’t be investing in EV nor renewables. I’m just saying the case with EVs isn’t as simple as some like to generalise.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#142

Post by xcv123 »

cbeach wrote: post #29
lb1lf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably as Porsche is not about efficient transportation; it is about emotion, driving as an experience, making a statement, etc. Chances are there will be - or, at least, Porsche appears to bet there will be - a sufficient number of well-heeled enthusiasts who prefer the sound, smell and vibration of an ICE to the quiet performance of an electric motor. I am really curious to see how this pans out in a generation…

> performance cars should have ICEs After driving a fast Tesla, stepping into an ICE performance car feels like going back to a steam engine. A very slow, unresponsive steam engine. When avid petrolheads try a fast EV and feel the instant torque it will be an epiphany for them. Only the most stubborn will stick with fossil cars.

The fastest EV is nothing compared to the fastest ICE.

Top fuel dragsters accelerate from 0 to 100 mph in 0.8 seconds.

I have tried fast EV and it's boring. I prefer my loud meth injected turbo diesel BMW (520 lb/ft at the wheels, pulls like a Tesla but is not boring to me)

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#143

Post by snthd »

Merad wrote: post #11
ttwwmm wrote: post #2

[flagged]

ICE aren't going to go away any time soon. Battery tech has a long way to go before it can compete with the energy density of liquid dinosaurs, and if it did there are plenty of cases where ICE has major advantages over battery power. But even if say 90% of the vehicles on earth could be replaced with electric, should we really stop innovating on that last 10%?

https://www.thoughtco.com/does-oil-come-from-dinosaurs-10920...

>Tiny Bacteria, Not Huge Dinosaurs, Formed Oil

>try to grasp the concept of deep geologic time, a talent possessed by very few people. Try to wrap your mind around the enormity of the figures: bacteria and single-celled organisms were the dominant forms of life on earth for a whopping two and a half to three billion years, a virtually incomprehensible stretch of time when measured against human civilization, which is only about 10,000 years old, and even against the reign of the dinosaurs, which lasted "only" about 165 million years. That's a lot of bacteria, a lot of time, and a lot of oil.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#144

Post by xcv123 »

thebruce87m wrote: post #140
xcv123 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we already have power cables but they do not generate power. The issue is clean power generation capacity.

There is a reason that I pay 7p/kWh (3p/mile) to charge at night compared to 30p/kWh during the day. There is already spare capacity at night. In my country it’s mostly wind.

Is your country 100% EV now?

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#145

Post by hnlmorg »

locallost wrote: post #54
hnlmorg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars still consume fossil fuels. It’s just earlier in the pipeline. People love to talk about combustion engines being pollutants but few people talk about just how damaging it is mining for rare metals to make those batteries. Nor how harmful for the environment it is disposing of old batters (we haven’t yet solved the problem of recycling them either). And that’s before you even touch on problems at the po…

On top of all the other replies debunking this, one thing left is that they're not the greener option for everyone. Auke Hoekstra has been pretty active (on Twitter etc) debunking this - electric cars' additional footprint gets paid off under 20k miles even at the emission levels of electricity grids of yesterday. As the grid decarbonizes further it will become even less. The number of cars driven less than 20k miles…

Did you actually read my comment and the replies? Because most of the replies didn’t even address the points I was making, let alone debunk it.

Just like with your post. I never actually made any claims about mileages. However as it happens, I do specifically fall into that uneconomical bracket. That’s why I ended up buying petrol despite wanting an EV. I work from home and thus rarely drive. EV isn’t yet ready for my specific use case. It will get there, but it’s not there today.

And thus we are back to the crux of point is was making: that this topic is far more complicated than the OP suggested.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#146

Post by thebruce87m »

xcv123 wrote: post #144
thebruce87m wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason that I pay 7p/kWh (3p/mile) to charge at night compared to 30p/kWh during the day. There is already spare capacity at night. In my country it’s mostly wind.

Is your country 100% EV now?

No, but even if it was demand would still be lower than 2002:

> The highest peak electricity demand in the UK in recent years was 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.

> Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we estimate demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002, and this is well within the range the grid can capably handle.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/ele...

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#147

Post by ajb »

thebruce87m wrote: post #125
Szpadel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many of people here live in US and assume that it everywhere things look similar. in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I own plug in hybrid and I live in apartment meaning I have no possibility to charge at home. near me (about 10 min of walking there is public single phase allow charger with 2 plugs machine…

> in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I’m always amazed by statements like this. People who have lived through the rollout of the internet to the masses can’t see how we’d modify existing structure to accommodate needs. We had phone lines initially, 20 years later now we have 5G, fibre, satellites. They just dug up…

The big question is not whether the infrastructure will be built, but whether it will owned by rent-seekers who charge everyone without their own driveway a massive premium to charge their vehicles.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#148

Post by albertopv »

thebruce87m wrote: post #125
Szpadel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many of people here live in US and assume that it everywhere things look similar. in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I own plug in hybrid and I live in apartment meaning I have no possibility to charge at home. near me (about 10 min of walking there is public single phase allow charger with 2 plugs machine…

> in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I’m always amazed by statements like this. People who have lived through the rollout of the internet to the masses can’t see how we’d modify existing structure to accommodate needs. We had phone lines initially, 20 years later now we have 5G, fibre, satellites. They just dug up…

Transferring so much electricity to everywhere in an efficient way is more expensive and harder though, not counting electricity generation, only partially clean, noy enough, very expensive.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#149

Post by cesarb »

ttwwmm wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> Seems pretty dumb considering it still consumes fossil fuels.

Internal combustion engines are not limited to fossil fuels. For instance, here in Brazil it's common to use sugarcane ethanol as an alternative fuel, and many cars come from factory ready to use either gasoline or ethanol (the keyword to look for is "flex fuel").

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#150

Post by hnlmorg »

hnlmorg wrote: post #12
ttwwmm wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Electric cars still consume fossil fuels. It’s just earlier in the pipeline. People love to talk about combustion engines being pollutants but few people talk about just how damaging it is mining for rare metals to make those batteries. Nor how harmful for the environment it is disposing of old batters (we haven’t yet solved the problem of recycling them either). And that’s before you even touch on problems at the po…

I’m getting a lot of hate for my comment but actually you’re all missing the point.

I’m not suggesting people shouldn’t buy EV nor that EV isn’t greener than ICE.

What I actually said is that EV still does a lot of harm to the environment and it’s a long way from being the saviour to our private transportation woes that a lot of people like to greenwash it as.

Does this mean that we shouldn’t buy EVs? Of course not. But it also means:

- we shouldn’t put all of our eggs into one basket. Research into other engines still brings us gains

- for some specific individuals, EVs are yet the best choice for their needs

The problem we have in this thread is everybody is jumping to one extreme or the other rather than acknowledging that this is actually a massively complex topic and thus theres going to be a lot of contextual factors and shades of grey.

So please don’t assume I’m trying to spread FUD about EVs just because I’m promoting awareness that we still have a lot more work to do before mass produced cars of any design becomes green.

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