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Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

motor1.com

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Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#71

Post by lostlogin »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16
ttwwmm wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> Why waste R&D on a dead end? "There were an estimated 20 million horses in March 1915 in the United States" [1]. In 2023? Almost 7 million. Internal combustion engines will be around for a long time, in part because they're beautiful. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_United_States#St... [2] https://www.ppfas.com/pdf-docs/b-finance/cigar-butt.pdf

Something that surprised me: the German army in WW2 was mainly horse drawn.

According to the below link, 80% of its transport was via horse.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-wwii-german-army-was-80-ho...

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#72

Post by ManuelKiessling »

082349872349872 wrote: post #62
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why waste R&D on a dead end? "There were an estimated 20 million horses in March 1915 in the United States" [1]. In 2023? Almost 7 million. Internal combustion engines will be around for a long time, in part because they're beautiful. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_United_States#St... [2] https://www.ppfas.com/pdf-docs/b-finance/cigar-butt.pdf

Pedantry: they aren't the same horses, though: in 1915 they were mostly draft horses, with a few sport/pleasure; in 2023 they're mostly sport/pleasure, with a few draft.

Porsche engines are clearly sport/pleasure engines, not draft engines.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#73

Post by Tade0 »

wiseowise wrote: post #36
sheepdestroyer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

They’re already heavily taxed. But why vilified?

There's a huge overlap between people who seek out such experiences and those who drive recklessly and modify their exhausts.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#74

Post by AlecSchueler »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16
ttwwmm wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> Why waste R&D on a dead end? "There were an estimated 20 million horses in March 1915 in the United States" [1]. In 2023? Almost 7 million. Internal combustion engines will be around for a long time, in part because they're beautiful. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_United_States#St... [2] https://www.ppfas.com/pdf-docs/b-finance/cigar-butt.pdf

Were horses ever actively restricted by governments around the world or did we move away from them because better solutions were available?

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#75

Post by JohnVideogames »

citrin_ru wrote: post #58
thebruce87m wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the myths you are posting are busted here: https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-21-misleading-myths-ab... The national grid in the UK was so fed up with people making claims about the grid capacity it also busted some too: https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/ele... > The highest peak electricity demand in the UK in recent years was 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has f…

> Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency. Energy demand in UK declining because prices went up which accelerated deindustrialisation and forced people's to use less energy e. g. heat homes less .

British homes are almost exclusively heated by natural gas boilers; home heating is only a small part of the grid electrical load.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#76

Post by 082349872349872 »

ManuelKiessling wrote: post #72
082349872349872 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedantry: they aren't the same horses, though: in 1915 they were mostly draft horses, with a few sport/pleasure; in 2023 they're mostly sport/pleasure, with a few draft.

Porsche engines are clearly sport/pleasure engines, not draft engines.

True; looks like their last tractor was over 50 years ago.

Other marques are still extant:

https://www.ferraritractor.com

https://www.lamborghini-tractors.com/en-eu/

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#77

Post by GavinMcG »

Tade0 wrote: post #70
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why waste R&D on a dead end? "There were an estimated 20 million horses in March 1915 in the United States" [1]. In 2023? Almost 7 million. Internal combustion engines will be around for a long time, in part because they're beautiful. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_United_States#St... [2] https://www.ppfas.com/pdf-docs/b-finance/cigar-butt.pdf

In the meantime the human population quadrupled, so the actual demand for horses is not half, but closer to 1/8 of what it was. They'll go the way of horses in the sense that you'll be hardly seeing any in cities.

You seem to be using “actual” in a way that suggests proportion to population is a key part of the definition. But although a company that served a market for 20 million might well have failed as the market shrank, it also had the opportunity to survive and continue serving an actual market with an actual demand for 7 million actual horses.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#78

Post by citrin_ru »

JohnVideogames wrote: post #75
citrin_ru wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency. Energy demand in UK declining because prices went up which accelerated deindustrialisation and forced people's to use less energy e. g. heat homes less .

British homes are almost exclusively heated by natural gas boilers; home heating is only a small part of the grid electrical load.

Yes, gas heating is common (thought in apartment buildings electric heating is more likely) but electricity and gas prices are correlated for now.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#79

Post by apelapan »

cbeach wrote: post #29
lb1lf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably as Porsche is not about efficient transportation; it is about emotion, driving as an experience, making a statement, etc. Chances are there will be - or, at least, Porsche appears to bet there will be - a sufficient number of well-heeled enthusiasts who prefer the sound, smell and vibration of an ICE to the quiet performance of an electric motor. I am really curious to see how this pans out in a generation…

> performance cars should have ICEs After driving a fast Tesla, stepping into an ICE performance car feels like going back to a steam engine. A very slow, unresponsive steam engine. When avid petrolheads try a fast EV and feel the instant torque it will be an epiphany for them. Only the most stubborn will stick with fossil cars.

Eh, no?

One car being objectively faster than another does not mean that it is more fun.

And even if one vehicle is more fun in some total measure, it will not be fun in all the same ways as all other fun vehicles.

There are plenty of people who alternate between something like a modern Mercedes V8 and a classic Mini. There is no question of which one is faster, but it might be the slow one that gives the most joy of sporty driving

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#80

Post by thebruce87m »

yardstick wrote: post #66
thebruce87m wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original claim was for the “entire world” which is why I specifically used global stats.

Maybe not every single country, sure. In the EU sales are sluggish. https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2024/05/19/europes-w... “Current sales of EVs in Europe have stalled at just over 2 million a year, as early adopters and corporate purchasing peaked out. Schmidt Automotive Research said during the opening third of 2024 Western Europe EV market share stalled at 14.4% compared with the same period last year, ac…

It’s fascinating the language used around EV sales. You have used “sluggish” where others might have used “stable”. In the past we had articles saying sales were “slowing” when in fact they were growing, just not growing as fast.

There are other regions that are growing, but I see little relevance to the original point unless people expected continued growth in every region with no blips?

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