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Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

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Re: Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

#221

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

fidotron wrote: post #69
hnlmorg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that but the UK has not experienced the kind of energy disruptions that, for example, the Texans have since the 1970s. Let’s also not forget the railroad problems you face. You’re probably the only country that makes Britain look good for its rail infrastructure. Having driven on both American roads and British roads, I’d say UK rural roads are to a much higher standard. However that I can give America a pass…

> You say that but the UK has not experienced the kind of energy disruptions that, for example, the Texans have since the 1970s. The energy disruptions the UK had in the 70s were how Thatcher came into power. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Day_Week

Those "disruptions" occured because of political action.

The disruptions in Texas are because their power grid and associated infrastructure is shite.

Entirely different things.

Re: Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

#222

Post by machinekob »

sofixa wrote: post #145
machinekob wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is energy independent and is desirable place for middle and higher class specialist. Compared to overtaxed and energy starved England which live from legacy sectors and cheap immigration workers and is not desirable for anyone not working in finances.

> live from legacy sectors Finance is a legacy sector now? > energy starved Importing energy while ramping up your own production with wind and tidal, and importantly, nuclear, is not "starved". Is there a lack of energy in the UK? Blackouts like the ones in Texas?

Man blackout != energy starved, you can have blackouts cause your infrastructure is attacked or just random natural disaster, look at energy prices compare it to China or even US not even speaking about oil rich countries.

Finance in UK is indeed legacy it is mostly big old banks there is still a bit of fintech and ofc. head funds, but UK is bleeding both talent and market share to CN and US. Not even speaking about tech salaries 10 years ago London was one of the top paying places for finance tech, now it is (ofc.) USA and CN (especially with cost of living).

Re: Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

#223

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #175
avianlyric wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it occurred to you that nobody rides passenger rail in the US because there’s zero investment in passenger rail, and as a consequence the U.S. has managed to build a rail system that more difficult to use that flights, and somehow still slower than cars. I can’t think of anywhere else in the developed world where the train system is the slowest form of motorised transport around.

People ride passenger rail where it makes sense. The acela line being a good example. But if they built a high speed rail between Texas and Ohio, nobody would ride that, because flying would still be faster. We could build some HSR between major cities in Texas, Florida, California, and the Northeast corridor, but it would account for a handful of straight railways. There are major problems with building these (Calif…

Many areas of the USA have population densities entirely comparable with large parts of Europe. The upper-central midwest (eastern MN, WI, IL, IA) is a good example - it compares favorably to most of France or Germany.

This is another example of how it is almost always a mistake to use a unitary description of anything when it comes to the USA. Yes, certainly where I live (New Mexico), population density is extremely low and long-haul rail transportation likely makes little sense. But talk about that as if it applies to "the united states" is a category error.

Re: Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

#224

Post by regularfry »

card_zero wrote: post #113
barry-cotter wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

British GDP per capita has been flat since 2008 while the US’ has gone from $49K to $81K. The UK has declined in relative terms compared to what used to be a near peer.

It may also be true that there's a national decline, I'm just saying to be very cautious about getting swept up in the idea. For instance, apparently America needs to be Made Great Again, facts notwithstanding.

Certainly one should take TFA with a pinch of salt rather than at face value. It is incredibly partisan.

Re: Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

#225

Post by regularfry »

stef25 wrote: post #122
benjaminwootton wrote: post #38

I’ll need to sit down and read this properly, but I would say there is a real stench of decline in England at the moment and pretty much everyone here would agree. It’s readily apparent the new government won’t save us already. Public services in particular: 2 weeks to see a Dr, a year for an operation, unlikely for the police to attend your call out, stagnant economy, high cost of living and low wages. And all whils…

It's hard to understand how people view the NHS. Some people claim it's the national treasure, but how does that work if service is as abysmal as what you describe ?

a) it hasn't always been bad (although it has always been a right-wing punching-bag); b) it has the potential to be a lot better than it currently is; c) a lot of the people actually in it care desperately about seeing that happen, and because of its size that's a surprising proportion of the population.

Re: Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

#226

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #115
hnlmorg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that but the UK has not experienced the kind of energy disruptions that, for example, the Texans have since the 1970s. Let’s also not forget the railroad problems you face. You’re probably the only country that makes Britain look good for its rail infrastructure. Having driven on both American roads and British roads, I’d say UK rural roads are to a much higher standard. However that I can give America a pass…

>Let’s also not forget the railroad problems you face. You’re probably the only country that makes Britain look good for its rail infrastructure. You give the US a pass on roads due to great distances, but not on rail? Rail is even more expensive than roads. On the subject of roads, it is important to remember that US roads vary greatly in quality based on geography, weather, and economic conditions. Every state gets…

> the current administration interfered with it for petty political reasons

I'm not entirely sure that doubts about handing fistfuls of cash to a corporation headed by an increasingly politically extreme CEO whose 2nd generation satellites are leaking so much radio energy that radio astronomy in that band of the spectrum looks doomed is "petty".

Re: Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

#227

Post by sofixa »

machinekob wrote: post #222
sofixa wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> live from legacy sectors Finance is a legacy sector now? > energy starved Importing energy while ramping up your own production with wind and tidal, and importantly, nuclear, is not "starved". Is there a lack of energy in the UK? Blackouts like the ones in Texas?

Man blackout != energy starved, you can have blackouts cause your infrastructure is attacked or just random natural disaster, look at energy prices compare it to China or even US not even speaking about oil rich countries. Finance in UK is indeed legacy it is mostly big old banks there is still a bit of fintech and ofc. head funds, but UK is bleeding both talent and market share to CN and US. Not even speaking about…

> Finance in UK is indeed legacy it is mostly big old banks there is still a bit of fintech

Many fintech b2c innovators come from the UK. Revolut and Monzo provide features with a UX and API that US banks couldn't even dream of.

> Man blackout != energy starved, you can have blackouts cause your infrastructure is attacked or just random natural disaster, look at energy prices compare it to China or even US not even speaking about oil rich countries.

Yes you can, but that's not why Texas has blackouts. The UK has expensive electricity, imports a lot, but on what planet is it "energy starved"?

Re: Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

#228

Post by rjsw »

barry-cotter wrote: post #62
dist-epoch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact it's a whole site dedicated to this article means there's some angle to it. Would be interesting to know who paid for this.

What an ugly, impoverished view of the world. Someone sees that the UK is poorer than it would be if economic policy wasn’t a disaster and wants to publicise that so it can be improved and tens of millions of people’s lives improved and you’re looking for an “angle”. Poverty is bad. There’s the angle.

Tufton Street thinktanks [1] are not trying to reduce poverty.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/55_Tufton_Street

Re: Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

#229

Post by regularfry »

nine_k wrote: post #65
benrutter wrote: post #18

Really interesting and well researched read. The main take away seems to be that Britain has seen a lack of state funded infrastructure development and it's paying the price for this, especially in the energy sector. I'm obviously oversimplifying, but I think that's an ok rough summary. I think it's well argued and evidenced in the article, but I'm interested in this question: why isn't the US stagnating? My understa…

The US has a huge internal market, with free interstate trade and no need for localization. The US has accumulated colossal scientific and R&D resources, which regularly produce industrial breakthroughs. Lower taxes help, too. (Lower taxes is what a country can afford for general benefit, not a sloppy pro-rich policy.) But most importantly, USD is effectively the world's reserve currency, so the US can literally prin…

The UK emerged from WWII massively indebted to the US. That's not entirely unrelated to the UK's position post-war.

Re: Foundations: Why Britain Has Stagnated

#230

Post by archagon »

Fernicia wrote: post #89
seanhunter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the authors is from the center for policy studies, which is a thinktank that was founded by Margaret Thatcher and 2 others. The other two authors seem to be the founder and one of the main contributors to https://worksinprogress.co/ which describes itself as "a magazine of new and underrated ideas to improve the world." So I'm going to guess it's gonna be that sort of thing. Someone with a neoliberal economic…

This is one of the worst comments I've read on HackerNews and engenders the decline in critical thinking that has become so pervasive here in recent years. You find a bunch of ways to frame the authors as the out-group, then cast a totally baseless aspersion. Presumably so you don't have to engage with any of the actual points in the article.

If this is one of the worst comments you’ve read on HN, you must be new to the site.
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