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How We Found Bin Laden: The Basics of Foreign Signals Intelligence

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Re: How We Found Bin Laden: The Basics of Foreign Signals Intelligence

#31

Post by hindsightbias »

rtsil wrote: post #13
jmyeet wrote: post #6

From the NSA, this seems like historical revisionism as it contradicts the bin Laden story widely accepted. The short version is: 9/11 happens. The Taliban offer to hand over bin Laden and George W. Bush refuses [1]. Bin Laden escapes into Pakistan. We then start a completely pointless war in Iraq against someone who played no part in 9/11. There was a letter from many conservative leaders prior to 9//1 calling for t…

They don't claim that NSA found Bin Laden. They say that they were part of a multi-agency effort that took 9 years to find him. And they say that human intelligence led them to who the courier was.

> 9 years

Given all the resources, I guess we all need to keep our expectations low.

Re: How We Found Bin Laden: The Basics of Foreign Signals Intelligence

#32

Post by avazhi »

sitkack wrote: post #25

I was disappointed that we never got an apology, or a plaque or wall or whatever they give out for heroes. Because all the foreign aid workers that have been killed due the CIA operation to pinpoint bin Laden via his kids DNA, definitely deserve one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_fake_vaccination_campaign_... https://www.csis.org/blogs/smart-global-health/fake-cia-vacc... > Terrorists began murdering polio vaccin…

Assuming you're serious, why would the CIA apologise to foreign aid workers? Maybe you can petition Médecins Sans Frontières to make a plaque, but the US security services are mandated to deal with pretty discrete and clear issues. Their remit was to find Osama. Random foreign aid workers (particularly non US citizens) are - vis-a-vis the CIA/NSA - justifiable collateral in these sorts of operations. That's just how it is, mate.

Re: How We Found Bin Laden: The Basics of Foreign Signals Intelligence

#33

Post by dataflow »

jmyeet wrote: post #17
dataflow wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The short version is: 9/11 happens. The Taliban offer to hand over bin Laden and George W. Bush refuses [1] I looked at your link. It seems you missed a huge asterisk on that from your own article: > the third most powerful figure in the ruling Taliban regime told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US

So how did the alternative course of action work out? EDIT: instead of rejecting the Taliban's offer outright and, say, negotiating and acceptable outcome, we chose to go to war, spend trillions of dollars, kill countless people and ultimately still leave the Taliban in power. The Taliban saying they need proof is a negotiation. There is no court of law. We could've simply bribed them. Imagine how much cheaper and ho…

I'm not here to support (or oppose) the war. I'm just noting that you left out a detail in your comment that a lot of people would feel is rather critical to the point.

Re: How We Found Bin Laden: The Basics of Foreign Signals Intelligence

#34

Post by dgfitz »

Arubis wrote: post #18
dyauspitr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why they don’t pay more, it’s not like the government is shy about spending money on defence.

They’re not, but they are shy about defying their own regulations around pay scales. The real money in defense is in private contracting.

This is accurate. Imagine if NSA paid FAANG people FAANG salaries how different the world might be.

Re: How We Found Bin Laden: The Basics of Foreign Signals Intelligence

#36

Post by dgfitz »

nativeit wrote: post #4

> Learn from a counterterrorism expert who was in the room when the word came in that Osama bin Laden was Killed In Action. There’s a very famous photo of Obama, Biden, the Joint Chiefs, and National Security advisors in the White House Situation Room watching the raid unfold in real-time…but sure, I guess it’ll be pretty neat also to get the names of the folks working on the other side of town who got a phone call f…

> There’s a very famous photo of Obama, Biden, the Joint Chiefs, and National Security advisors in the White House Situation Room watching the raid unfold in real-time…

How convenient there was a photographer in the fucking situation room! Such a coincidence.

Re: How We Found Bin Laden: The Basics of Foreign Signals Intelligence

#37

Post by dgfitz »

jmyeet wrote: post #6

From the NSA, this seems like historical revisionism as it contradicts the bin Laden story widely accepted. The short version is: 9/11 happens. The Taliban offer to hand over bin Laden and George W. Bush refuses [1]. Bin Laden escapes into Pakistan. We then start a completely pointless war in Iraq against someone who played no part in 9/11. There was a letter from many conservative leaders prior to 9//1 calling for t…

> From the NSA, this seems like historical revisionism as it contradicts the bin Laden story widely accepted.

You just described counterintelligence propaganda.

Re: How We Found Bin Laden: The Basics of Foreign Signals Intelligence

#38

Post by Jtsummers »

dyauspitr wrote: post #15
zeroCalories wrote: post #3

Wild that the NSA has a podcast. Part of me always wanted to work for them, and I still dream of cyber warfare, but the allure of big tech money and the Virginia location always pushed me away. Maybe some day.

I wonder why they don’t pay more, it’s not like the government is shy about spending money on defence.

The government isn't shy about spending on defense, it is shy about spending on people. GS and GG pay scales aren't that great when compared to industry positions. Consider that GS-13 is often the max for SMEs in many engineering disciplines across the fed until you get into PhD territory (to stay technical, management roles more easily go up to GS-14/15). GS-14/15 if you're in cyber and somewhere like the NSA, maybe. And while that's better than GS-13, you're talking about capping at around $200k or a bit better in high cost of living areas with skills and clearances that could make you much more in industry.

Re: How We Found Bin Laden: The Basics of Foreign Signals Intelligence

#39

Post by dgfitz »

sitkack wrote: post #23
khuey wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Taliban offer to hand over bin Laden and George W. Bush refuses A bit disingenuous to say that and leave out that the most generous version of that offer was to hand Bin Laden over to a third country .

He'd still be in custody. How is what we have now better because he wasn't held by a third country?

Would he? Any tips on sports gambling this week!?

Re: How We Found Bin Laden: The Basics of Foreign Signals Intelligence

#40

Post by lofenfew »

avazhi wrote: post #32
sitkack wrote: post #25

I was disappointed that we never got an apology, or a plaque or wall or whatever they give out for heroes. Because all the foreign aid workers that have been killed due the CIA operation to pinpoint bin Laden via his kids DNA, definitely deserve one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_fake_vaccination_campaign_... https://www.csis.org/blogs/smart-global-health/fake-cia-vacc... > Terrorists began murdering polio vaccin…

Assuming you're serious, why would the CIA apologise to foreign aid workers? Maybe you can petition Médecins Sans Frontières to make a plaque, but the US security services are mandated to deal with pretty discrete and clear issues. Their remit was to find Osama. Random foreign aid workers (particularly non US citizens) are - vis-a-vis the CIA/NSA - justifiable collateral in these sorts of operations. That's just how…

And yet

> I wanted to inform you that the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) directed in August 2013 that the agency make no operational use of vaccination programs, which includes vaccination workers. Similarly, the Agency will not seek to obtain or exploit DNA or other genetic material acquired through such programs. This CIA policy applies worldwide and to U.S. and non-U.S. persons alike.

The CIA themselves recognizes such an approach as being bad overall.

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