FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies • Hacker News Board

Re: FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies

#121

Post by polygamous_bat » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:48 PM UTC

lesuorac wrote: post #72

kibwen wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that my data can be stolen in the first place is already outrageous, because I neither consented to allowing these companies to have my data, nor benefit from them having my data. It's like if you go to an AirBNB and the owner sneaks in at night and takes photos of you sleeping naked and keeps those photos in a folder on his bookshelf. Would you be okay with that? If you're not directly harmed, what liabilit…

I don't think thats a proper parallel. I think a better example would be You (AirBnB Host) rent a house to Person and Person loses the house key. Later on (perhaps many years later), You are robbed. Does Person have liability for the robbery? Of course it also gets really muddy because you'll have renting the house out for those years and during that time many people will have lost keys. So does liability get divided…

> I think a better example would be You (AirBnB Host) rent a house to Person and Person loses the house key.

This is not a direct analogue, a closer analogy would be when the guest creates a copy of the key (why?) without my direct consent (signing a 2138 page "user agreement" doesn't count) and at some later point when I am no longer renting to them, loses the key.

Re: FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies

#122

Post by arminiusreturns » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:48 PM UTC

doctorpangloss wrote: post #113

jlarocco wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cognitive dissonance is in the voters and users. Even right here on HN, where most people understand the issue, you'll see conversations and arguments in favor of letting companies vacuum up as much data and user info as they want (without consent or opt-in), while also saying it should be illegal for the government to collect the same data without a warrant. In practice, the corporations and government have foun…

There isn’t a single intellectually honest harm associated with the majority of app telemetry and for almost all ad data collection. Like go ahead and name one. Once you say some vague demographic and bodily autonomy stuff: you know, if you’re going to invoke “voters,” I’ve got bad news for you. Some kinds of hate are popular. So you can’t pick and choose what popular stuff is good or what popular stuff is bad. It ha…

The intelligence agencies literally use ad data to do "targeted killing" what are you even talking about?

Ex-NSA Chief: 'We Kill People Based on Metadata'...

Re: FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies

#123

Post by TinyRick » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:48 PM UTC

arminiusreturns wrote: post #104

srndsnd wrote: post #31

To me, what's missing from that set of recommendations is some method to increase the liability of companies who mishandle user data. It is insane to me that I can be notified via physical mail of months old data breaches, some of which contained my Social Security number, and that my only recourse is to set credit freezes from multiple credit bureaus.

I agree. Let me tell you about what just happened to me. After a very public burnout and spiral, a friend rescued me and I took a part time gig helping a credit card processing company. About 2 months ago, the owner needed something done while I was out, and got their uber driver to send an email. They emailed the entire customer database, including bank accounts, socials, names, addresses, finance data, to a single…

Why would you resign? You could have reported it yourself and then you would have whistleblower protections - if the company retaliated against you (e.g. fired you), you then would have had a strong lawsuit.

Re: FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies

#124

Post by arminiusreturns » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:50 PM UTC

TinyRick wrote: post #123

arminiusreturns wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Let me tell you about what just happened to me. After a very public burnout and spiral, a friend rescued me and I took a part time gig helping a credit card processing company. About 2 months ago, the owner needed something done while I was out, and got their uber driver to send an email. They emailed the entire customer database, including bank accounts, socials, names, addresses, finance data, to a single…

Why would you resign? You could have reported it yourself and then you would have whistleblower protections - if the company retaliated against you (e.g. fired you), you then would have had a strong lawsuit.

Because I don't want to be associated with companies that break the law and violate regulations knowingly. I've long had a reputation of integrity, and it's one of the few things I have left having almost nothing else.

Re: FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies

#125

Post by lesuorac » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:50 PM UTC

pixl97 wrote: post #106

lesuorac wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think thats a proper parallel. I think a better example would be You (AirBnB Host) rent a house to Person and Person loses the house key. Later on (perhaps many years later), You are robbed. Does Person have liability for the robbery? Of course it also gets really muddy because you'll have renting the house out for those years and during that time many people will have lost keys. So does liability get divided…

The particular problem comes in because the amount of data lost tends to be massive when these breaches occur. It's kind of like the idea of robbing a minute from someone's life. It's not every much to an individual, but across large populations it's a massive theft.

Sure and if you pay a statutory fine times 10 million then it becomes a big deal and therefore companies would be incentivized to protect it better the larger they get.

Right now they probably get some near free rate to offer you credit monitoring and dgaf.

Re: FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies

#126

Post by ValentinA23 » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:51 PM UTC

arminiusreturns wrote: post #104

srndsnd wrote: post #31

To me, what's missing from that set of recommendations is some method to increase the liability of companies who mishandle user data. It is insane to me that I can be notified via physical mail of months old data breaches, some of which contained my Social Security number, and that my only recourse is to set credit freezes from multiple credit bureaus.

I agree. Let me tell you about what just happened to me. After a very public burnout and spiral, a friend rescued me and I took a part time gig helping a credit card processing company. About 2 months ago, the owner needed something done while I was out, and got their uber driver to send an email. They emailed the entire customer database, including bank accounts, socials, names, addresses, finance data, to a single…

The DOJ has just launched a corporate whistleblower program, you should look into it maybe it covers your case:

https://www.justice.gov/criminal/criminal-division-corporate...

>As described in more detail in the program guidance, the information must relate to one of the following areas: (1) certain crimes involving financial institutions, from traditional banks to cryptocurrency businesses; (2) foreign corruption involving misconduct by companies; (3) domestic corruption involving misconduct by companies; or (4) health care fraud schemes involving private insurance plans.

>If the information a whistleblower submits results in a successful prosecution that includes criminal or civil forfeiture, the whistleblower may be eligible to receive an award of a percentage of the forfeited assets, depending on considerations set out in the program guidance. If you have information to report, please fill out the intake form below and submit your information via CorporateWhistleblower@usdoj.gov. Submissions are confidential to the fullest extent of the law.

Re: FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies

#127

Post by mgraczyk » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:51 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #93

mgraczyk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been ubiquitous for around 20 years now (Google started doing mass surveillance for display ads in the early 2000s) and nothing bad has happened, so yes that's my point. If nothing bad happens for decades, and that is inconsistent with your model of danger, then the model is probably wrong

If you don't think anything bad happens from personal data being accessed without one's consent, please reply to this comment and share: 1. Your full name 2. Your home address 3. Your social security number (if you're American) 4. Your mother's maiden name If you're right, then you have nothing to worry about.

None of this data is included in the FTC report. They are not talking about this.

My full name is Michael Graczyk, I live in San Francisco, none of these companies know any more detail than that about the questions you asked

Re: FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies

#128

Post by lesuorac » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:52 PM UTC

polygamous_bat wrote: post #121

lesuorac wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think thats a proper parallel. I think a better example would be You (AirBnB Host) rent a house to Person and Person loses the house key. Later on (perhaps many years later), You are robbed. Does Person have liability for the robbery? Of course it also gets really muddy because you'll have renting the house out for those years and during that time many people will have lost keys. So does liability get divided…

> I think a better example would be You (AirBnB Host) rent a house to Person and Person loses the house key. This is not a direct analogue, a closer analogy would be when the guest creates a copy of the key (why?) without my direct consent (signing a 2138 page "user agreement" doesn't count) and at some later point when I am no longer renting to them, loses the key.

I'm still much more interested in the answer to who is liable for the robbery.

Just the Robber? Or are any of the key-copiers (instead of losers w/e) also?

Re: FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies

#129

Post by trinsic2 » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:52 PM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #33

devonbleak wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me irrationally angry that I suddenly started getting spam emails from Experian. Like motherfucker I never consented for you to have my data, then you leak it all, now you're sending me unsolicited junk email? It's just such bullshit that I'm literally forced to have a relationship with these companies to freeze my credit or else I'm at the mercy of whoever they decide to release my information to without my…

My pet solution has been to make the credit reporters liable for transmitting false information to the CRAs. Chase tells Experian I opened a new line of credit with them, but it later is demonstrated that it was a scammer with my SSN? Congratulations, $5,000 fine. Of course this all gets priced in to the cost and availability of consumer credit. Good! Now the lenders have an incentive to drive those costs down (cheap…

Can you describe how you make them liable in this arrangement?

Re: FTC: Vast Surveillance of Users by Social Media and Video Streaming Companies

#130

Post by aftbit » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:53 PM UTC

arminiusreturns wrote: post #104

srndsnd wrote: post #31

To me, what's missing from that set of recommendations is some method to increase the liability of companies who mishandle user data. It is insane to me that I can be notified via physical mail of months old data breaches, some of which contained my Social Security number, and that my only recourse is to set credit freezes from multiple credit bureaus.

I agree. Let me tell you about what just happened to me. After a very public burnout and spiral, a friend rescued me and I took a part time gig helping a credit card processing company. About 2 months ago, the owner needed something done while I was out, and got their uber driver to send an email. They emailed the entire customer database, including bank accounts, socials, names, addresses, finance data, to a single…

>Why is it everywhere I go management is always doing shady stuff.

Well here's a cynical take on this - management is playing the business game at a higher level than you. "Shady stuff" is the natural outcome of profit motivation. Our society is fundamentally corrupt. It is designed to use the power of coercive force to protect the rights and possessions of the rich against the threat of violence by the poor. The only way to engage with it AND keep your hands clean is to be in a position that lets you blind yourself to the problem. At the end of the day, we are all still complicit in enabling slave labor and are beneficiaries of policies that harm the poor and our environment in order to enrich our lives.

>unless I report it to PCI, which I would get no reward for.

You may be looking at that backwards. Unless you report it to PCI, you are still complicit in the mishandling of the breach, even though you resigned. You might have been better off reporting it over the owner's objections, then claiming whistleblower protections if they tried to terminate you.

This is not legal advice, I am not a lawyer, I am not your lawyer, etc.