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Is Tor still safe to use?

blog.torproject.org

511–520 of 602 posts

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#511
post #447

I am interested in the “legitimate” uses for tor. I have not kept up with this but I understand it was designed by US Navy to make it hard for oppressive regiemes to track their citizens use of web. What do we want Tor for except as a hope that Russian citizens might be able to get to the BBC site? I am asking honestly - and would prefer not to be told my own government is on the verge of a mass pogrum so we had bett…

Let's not discount the validity of making it easier for Russians, or Chinese, or North Koreans, to get western media.

Because how else would they know that Kamala used to work in mcdonalds. Pure gold in western media.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the opposite of a point. The logical conclusion of that line of reasoning is that everyone should use privacy tools so no one can be singled out. And that ordinary users with "nothing to hide" should be the first to start using them.

I mean, sure. And while we're at it pigs should fly. Functional security means understanding your risks, and using privacy tools is a risk - in the sense that it does single you out in the current environment. Your actual communications can be secure, but that doesn't stop a bad actor/government from picking you up and beating you with a wrench until you talk - if they get suspicious enough. Just saying "everyone sho…

> I mean, sure. And while we're at it pigs should fly.

Pigs have significantly higher density than birds and lack wings. Getting them to fly under their own power would be quite a challenge. By contrast, installing Tor Browser is actually pretty easy.

> Your actual communications can be secure, but that doesn't stop a bad actor/government from picking you up and beating you with a wrench until you talk - if they get suspicious enough.

In general this is not what happens in e.g. the United States. The act of installing or using Tor doesn't in and of itself cause anyone to beat you with a wrench. Try it. Visit HN using Tor Browser. No one comes in the night to put a bag over your head.

> Just saying "everyone should use these tools!" is not actually a counter-argument. It's a fine long term goal, but it's not addressing the real risk that some folks might be in.

If you live in an authoritarian country and actively oppose the government, you are already doing something that will get you punished if you're caught and then the question is, which is more likely to get you caught? Tor has several measures to reduce the probability that you're detected. Private entry guards, pluggable transports, etc. You might still get caught, but these things reduce the probability, whereas if you openly oppose the government without using any privacy technology, you're much easier to catch. Using it in this case is pretty clearly to your advantage.

If you live in a country that has a modicum of respect for fundamental rights like privacy and due process, then you can use Tor when you're not breaking any laws and are just trying to avoid being tracked across the internet by Google and Facebook, because using Tor isn't in itself illegal. And doing this not only benefits you, it benefits the people in the first group who need it even more than you do, because it makes them stand out less.

So who are the people who shouldn't be using it?

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#513
At the most basic level we're talking about a very public service that has been around for a long time that is a potential weakness/ enormous target for the best funded and most technically proficient intelligence agencies in the world.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case we're talking at cross-purposes, so I'll reserve judgment. I'm concerned with what let's call Gorhill's Web-- that is, the experience glued together by gorhill's Ublock Origin that is viewed by the vast majority of HN commenters on a day to day basis. What you're describing is the Web-based Wasteland that is experienced by the vast majority of non-technical users who view the web without an ad blocker. E…

I don’t think it’s true that the vast majority of HN users use ad blockers. I don’t, and I don’t find the web “practically unusable”.

Being the exception to the rule doesn’t disprove the rule

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>spread democracy i have to say that i love that phrase, it is peak propaganda that just works.

Yes, I boldly inserted that deliberately aware of its potential provocative effect. So I am truly glad you derive some enjoyment from it. I did too! Comrades in arms? Or at least in Internet nodding hahaha! :)

Indeed old timer commies of HN might get irritated by that phrase, but in this corner of the world we love Democracy. This summer would pretty dry in my region because of global warming, but thanks to Democracy we had plenty of precipitation in the form of MK-84s. I wonder which neighboring country is going to get her share next year, it's a gift that never stopped giving since some 20 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_terror

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only 100% safe method is to not do the illegal activity at all. Nope. Not even that is 100% safe because you can be falsely convicted of a crime you never even committed. Many privacy tools reduce that risk as well, because you're less likely to be convicted by e.g. a lazy prosecutor willing to take things out of context if you provide them with less source material to trawl through.

On the other hand "he was using the dark-web Tor browser beloved of criminals and widely used amongst drug sellers" is probably pretty convincing to jurors.

What jury? Only 2% of criminal cases go to trial. The goal is to give them nothing they can use to bring you up on (false) charges. Using Tor isn't a chargeable offense in free countries.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#517
post #412
post #200

Sincere question. This was created with US government funding. Is there any reason to believe it is safe?

So was the Internet at DARPA (or its modern foundation). And the WWW at CERN. Tor's development team aren't on the payroll of the US gov't, and their funding comes from many sources. If having received funding from a government agency is enough to earn your distrust, you'd quickly become a paranoid schizophrenic.

Neither the Internet nor the Web were designed for anonymity.

And I cannot name an organization I would trust to tell me the truth if doing so will jeopardize its funding.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#518
The question is always and forever who are you hiding from and how strong is their will?

Assume if the will is strong and the resources are strong you will be eventually identified. If your not worth it then your not worth it.

become not worth it

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to make too much light of a morbid topic but the idea of someone having a murderous yet tech-savvy ex who has methodically installed all sorts of elaborate digital surveillance measures in their former spouse's personal tech stack in service of premeditated homicide, sitting in a dark room somewhere, howling in anger upon realizing his murder plan has (somehow...?) been thwarted by said former spouse unexpectedly…

Stop thinking about cloak and dagger shit and start thinking about things ordinary people could do if they had a psychotic obsession, and nothing better to do with 120 hours a week of their time. Stalkers want to make it impossible to live a normal life. They try to make it impossible to go to work or school, to use phones, email, messaging services, etc. Already knew my contact info, and got new ones by asking mutua…

> Not saying tor is a good-fit solution to these problems

I'm glad we agree!

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