US health system ranks last compared with peer nations

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#191

Post by ImJamal » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 3:09 PM UTC

usr1106 wrote: post #21

jimbob45 wrote: post #3

It's unfair to judge the EU piecewise but then judge the US as a whole. Either let us compare apples to apples by judging the whole EU against the US or let us judge individual European member states against individual US states.

The EU has no common health system at all. Calculating any kind of averages makes little sense. Within some countries I am personally familiar with there are significant differences in availability of health services between certain areas, rural vs urban, but also regionally. Legally the systems should be rather uniform within a country though. Many countries have a split between publicly financed and privately paid…

The US has no common health system. There are a few systems that are common (Medicare) but that is only for the elderly. The rest of the system is all done on the state level. The rules vary amongst all the states.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#192

Post by xtracto » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 3:09 PM UTC

wkat4242 wrote: post #98

askonomm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Estonia all of our records (incl. Health) are digitized and online in a central system that both doctors and you can access. It works wonders. Every doctor I go to can see my entire medical history with a press of a button, and I don't have to deal with any of that. Likewise when they prescribe new things, I can see my prescriptions right there, and so forth. We're a 100% online nation now, and clearly when done w…

Are there safeguards in place to prevent the wrong people looking up your data with the touch of a button though? I'm aware of Estonia's digital prowess but for me privacy is a top concern and I'm glad we're not so all-in here.

I understand where you are coming from. But for ME I have personally ever wondered why are people afraid of others knowing their medical history.

This I know is a very unpopular opinion, but for my specific case, I've got plenty of medical record that may be considered "shameful"? Got several colonoscopies, endoscopies, I lost a finger, I had a LIS (anal operation) , etc, etc, etc haha. Yet, I kind of don't really care if people knew about it.

Maybe I have never truly suffered discrimination (I'm what we call "whitexican" here in Mexico, so I'm privileged. And that's why I think like this.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#193

Post by chgs » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 4:03 PM UTC

MediumOwl wrote: post #135

chgs wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really teachers and baristas and builders get paid more than 99% of people in France Or are you just talking specific tech jobs.

According to this article ( https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2022/06/03/france-h... ), top 1% earner in France in 2021 was 7180€ monthly, so ~8000$.

And what is 8k/month in terms of US percentile?

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#194

Post by happiness_idx » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 4:48 PM UTC

Rinzler89 wrote: post #101

xvector wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK you also pay insane taxes and your _median_ citizen in the UK has far less disposable income after all expenses including healthcare, according to OECD metrics. In software engineering specifically, I'd make a third of my current income in the UK. I'd much rather make 3x as much in the US and still get free healthcare through my employer, with shorter waiting lists and better treatment outcomes than the NHS…

> your software engineers make a third of what they make here Is this topic for discussing health care systems or the SW engineering salary dick measuring Olympics? Because those are two different unrelated topics. Which country pays its software engineers the most is not some yardstick for measuring national quality of life of its average citizens, and whether SW engineers get paid a lot is totally irelevant to the…

>I bet the disabled US vets, homeless people or McDonalds workers in the states

Those two groups share interesecting means by which their healthcare is provided. Surprise! Its the government. So when people have doubts about an implementation of "Universal Healthcare" you shouldn't be surprised when you can acknowledge that as you said " but would probably feel a bit cheated learning that despite living and paying taxes in the richest country in the world, their peers in poorer EU countries get much more benefits and better quality of life."

Irrelevent but homeless people don't really pay taxes in any meaningful sense.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#195

Post by aguaviva » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 4:51 PM UTC

Yizahi wrote: post #166

benterix wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Europe and if I take a blood test at 7 am I can usually check the results online by 1 pm.

Blood test yes, MRI - no. In the Ukraine I can go to the M24 center, and yes, 24 means it is literally working 24/7/365. And I don't need doctor's referral to do it. In EU I had to wait 2 months and have doctors referral, and that was lucky window I caught by chance. Other people report waiting much longer. To get to the specialist doctors is also hard in EU, compared to the Ukraine. Here I had to wait between 1 to 3…

And in the middle of a full-scale war, in a country not exactly wealthy, no less.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#196

Post by autoexec » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 4:55 PM UTC

evnix wrote: post #88

CaptainZapp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The general slowness extends to simple things like x-rays and blood tests too. This is not just US but whole of the west seems to have the exact same attitude. In Switzerland I get an MRI within 48 hours if my doctor orders it. Mind you, healthcare is also very expensive comparatively but the quality is very high and coverage is extensive.

Condition is if "your doctor orders it" and how long does it take to get to that doctor if it isn't an emergency. I don't about Switzerland but it is quite bad in majority of EU countries. And Why can't you just walk in to a clinic to get x-rays and tests done like it is in done elsewhere. Have clinics compete for price. The other part no one mentions is the utter cheating that goes on in statistics to show that the…

You can, but it's not necessarily a good idea.

https://www.newyorker.com/science/annals-of-medicine/will-a-...

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jacr.2024.08.024

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#197

Post by autoexec » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 4:58 PM UTC

armitron wrote: post #134

l5870uoo9y wrote: post #93

The UK performs better (third place) than, for example, Germany (second last place). The UK's healthcare system is often heavily criticized as being on the brink of collapse - any explanation for this?

The only explanation is that the "report" is obviously detached from reality and using massaged metrics to make political points. The NHS is as bad as it gets. "More than 120,000 people in England died last year while on the NHS waiting list for hospital treatment, figures obtained by Labour appear to show. That would be a record high number of such deaths, and is double the 60,000 patients who died in 2017/18." http…

> "More than 120,000 people in England died last year while on the NHS waiting list for hospital treatment,

Still seems better than the situation in the US

30+ million Americans watched as someone they knew died because they couldn’t afford treatment (https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/11/14/survey...)

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#198

Post by zjp » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 5:12 PM UTC

chgs wrote: post #193

MediumOwl wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this article ( https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2022/06/03/france-h... ), top 1% earner in France in 2021 was 7180€ monthly, so ~8000$.

And what is 8k/month in terms of US percentile?

Family income: 60 Individual: 75

https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#199

Post by jorvi » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 5:18 PM UTC

evnix wrote: post #163

jorvi wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And Why can't you just walk in to a clinic to get x-rays and tests done like it is in done elsewhere. Have clinics compete for price. Because false negatives are a massive problem. People get biopsies or treatments for things that never needed it, which is ultimately worse for their health (on average) than catching the rare time it is something.

There is no stats to what you are speaking. General People not being able to get to doctor in months is a bigger problem than a rare false negative. This also reduces burden on doctors. If the only thing your doctor does is prescribe antibiotics and orders scans. Why not do it yourself and get treated early.

Apologies, I mixed up my terms, I meant false positive.

And no, you are wrong, overtreatment is a huge problem.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#200

Post by usr1106 » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 6:06 PM UTC

ImJamal wrote: post #191

usr1106 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has no common health system at all. Calculating any kind of averages makes little sense. Within some countries I am personally familiar with there are significant differences in availability of health services between certain areas, rural vs urban, but also regionally. Legally the systems should be rather uniform within a country though. Many countries have a split between publicly financed and privately paid…

The US has no common health system. There are a few systems that are common (Medicare) but that is only for the elderly. The rest of the system is all done on the state level. The rules vary amongst all the states.

> the rest of the system is all done on the state level

Ok. Didn't know that. But you are talking about public services aren't you? I would assume a rather small fraction of the huge US health expenses are publicly financed. The bigger part is completely private businesses, both service production and insurances for those who have one.

That's the opposite in most EU countries and UK. A large fraction is either produced publicly or if produced privately then paid for by a publicly organized health insurance.