Senate Vote Tomorrow Could Give Helping Hand to Patent Trolls
31–40 of 55 posts
Re: Senate Vote Tomorrow Could Give Helping Hand to Patent Trolls
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends on details. Monsanto doesn't worry about seeds on the wind. The cases I've read have come down to the fact that they escaped to someone who was trying to take those genetics. The farmer planted next to a round-up ready field, and then saved seeds - this would have been fine except the farmer then used those seeds and sprayed round-up which ensured all the plants without the round-up ready genes died and his n…
Huh, hadn't read that context until now. Thanks
Re: Senate Vote Tomorrow Could Give Helping Hand to Patent Trolls
#33Former tech advisor to Google Patent Litigation here. The Ex Parte Reexamination is a fundamental tool for fighting against patent trolls: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reexamination They can also be used by big companies to steal IP from small inventors. However, this is not why the backers of this bill are trying to limit them. When a troll buys up a patent from the early 2000's, they hope to stretch its claims, wi…
Google is a massive company that often throws its weight to take patented technology without payment under the guise of fighting patent trolls.
Ex Parte Reexamination simply makes it easier to avoid patent claims since it provides another opportunity to throw out claims, some of which may have stood in a full trial.
Patent cases can easily take decades to complete an span multiple jurisdictions, and google has been involved in several such cases, meaning the original patents are now quite outdated compared to modern technology despite their original applicability.
After ex google executive Michelle Lee became head of the US Patent Office, the PTO has been more favorable to patent infringement in my opinion.
Google has settled many patent cases over the years, surely some of them were valid patents.
> If you go to trial, it's some unsophisticated jurors who decide if the patent is valid. For a reexam, it's PTO people, who at least know what the law is.
Is this not depriving people of their right to a jury? The PTO reviewers are hardly more knowledgeable about technical fields than juries. Somehow 64% of reviews end up with changes, is this not a sign that the PTO has been all to regularly changing its mind about valid patents?
To be clear I have never been involved in any sort of litigation against google, patent related or otherwise. I just think the pendulum has swung too far against patents. I could have instead argued that Apple or other companies are also very oppressive against patents.
I do agree many software patents are not applicable and are often spam, but there are real costs to decreasing patent rights outside of software
Re: Senate Vote Tomorrow Could Give Helping Hand to Patent Trolls
#34We need to be reducing patent terms and making it easier to invalidate bad patents, not helping trolls.
Re: Senate Vote Tomorrow Could Give Helping Hand to Patent Trolls
#35Former tech advisor to Google Patent Litigation here. The Ex Parte Reexamination is a fundamental tool for fighting against patent trolls: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reexamination They can also be used by big companies to steal IP from small inventors. However, this is not why the backers of this bill are trying to limit them. When a troll buys up a patent from the early 2000's, they hope to stretch its claims, wi…
Let me point out the opposite view. Google is a massive company that often throws its weight to take patented technology without payment under the guise of fighting patent trolls. Ex Parte Reexamination simply makes it easier to avoid patent claims since it provides another opportunity to throw out claims, some of which may have stood in a full trial. Patent cases can easily take decades to complete an span multiple…
This is called "begging the question": assuming what is in dispute and needs proving.
"Patented technology" assumes that the "invention" was indeed worthy of a patent. If you want to take some example patents whose claims were thrown out in IPR, I'll be happy to debate them with you.
> Ex Parte Reexamination simply makes it easier to avoid patent claims since it provides another opportunity to throw out claims, some of which may have stood in a full trial.
Again, you are begging the question. I've actually watched a mock jury debate patent eligibility. Their assumption is that the PTO wouldn't have granted the patent if it weren't valid. I actually heard a member say about a piece of invalidating prior art (paraphrasing), "That's so obscure! It's not fair to expect the PTO to know about that!"
> The PTO reviewers are hardly more knowledgeable about technical fields than juries.
You can't be serious. Technical knowledge is not expected from a jury. PTO examiners are accustomed to doing this.
> Is this not depriving people of their right to a jury?
Not an unconditional right. A jury trial costs anywhere from $500,000 to $1,000,000 a day. Demand for a jury trial by an NPE is basically extortion.
> Somehow 64% of reviews end up with changes, is this not a sign that the PTO has been all to regularly changing its mind about valid patents?
For the third time, "begging the question." Find some patents that were modified and we'll talk about them.
> Google has settled many patent cases over the years, surely some of them were valid patents.
Pretty weak reasoning. Settling is not an admission of guilt.
> I do agree many software patents are not applicable and are often spam, but there are real costs to decreasing patent rights outside of software.
At last you've hit on something reasonable: take software out of the patent field entirely, and we can make some good law.
Re: Senate Vote Tomorrow Could Give Helping Hand to Patent Trolls
#36Former tech advisor to Google Patent Litigation here. The Ex Parte Reexamination is a fundamental tool for fighting against patent trolls: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reexamination They can also be used by big companies to steal IP from small inventors. However, this is not why the backers of this bill are trying to limit them. When a troll buys up a patent from the early 2000's, they hope to stretch its claims, wi…
Google’s patent strategy is to patent everything it sees and hears about. This is a good case of it: https://patentpandas.org/stories/company-patented-my-idea . As long as patent attorneys are on quotas at Google, they will be filing bullshit patents they didn’t invent all the same as the trolls. Anything sincere about US patents must always be about how they should cost basically nothing to file correctly by invento…
No, that's not the strategy. I served for a while on a engineers' committee in Geo to evaluate submitted patent ideas, 1-4, "1" being "definitely patent, we're doing this" and "4" being "this is so bad you don't even get the $50 for the idea." Usually it got a "2" if it was something we might do sometime, and a "3" if it was a good idea but not worth patenting.
I submitted five or so applications (in Ads, not in Geo). Several they dropped when the post-CLS Bank PTO rejected them on 101 (subject matter) grounds. Since it can cost $50,000 or more to prosecute a patent, and that is cash to an outside law firm, not just Google lawyers' salaries.
As for this patentpandas guy: there is lots of prior art. This guy is a naif. "Publish any idea you have as soon as you have it" is always a good rule.
Re: Senate Vote Tomorrow Could Give Helping Hand to Patent Trolls
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google’s patent strategy is to patent everything it sees and hears about. This is a good case of it: https://patentpandas.org/stories/company-patented-my-idea . As long as patent attorneys are on quotas at Google, they will be filing bullshit patents they didn’t invent all the same as the trolls. Anything sincere about US patents must always be about how they should cost basically nothing to file correctly by invento…
> Google’s patent strategy is to patent everything it sees and hears about. This is a good case of it: https://patentpandas.org/stories/company-patented-my-idea . As long as patent attorneys are on quotas at Google, they will be filing bullshit patents they didn’t invent all the same as the trolls. No, that's not the strategy. I served for a while on a engineers' committee in Geo to evaluate submitted patent ideas, 1…
You're a lawyer, whose job is reading shit, and you thought the protagonist was a man?
This is just stylistically razzing you. I am not this cynical and you are a qualified expert. The takeaway is that the status quo for patenting in software, and staff attorneys generally, is really unpopular, among highly educated people. There has to be major change.
Re: Senate Vote Tomorrow Could Give Helping Hand to Patent Trolls
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Naturally occuring genes can't be patented, but artificial ones can. Theoretically, you'd never have the artificial ones, but yeah, sticky subject. https://www.science.org/content/article/us-supreme-court-str...
Where this could go was covered by (among others) Michael Chrichton's last novel Next [1] which games this out in some detail (as far as I am aware it's his only novel with endnotes). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_(Crichton_novel)
I haven't read it, but I know for sure that State of Fear, his book that revolves around eco-terrorists creating fake natural disasters to gin up fear about global warming, (in)famously has extensive notes and discussion about his views on the subject.
Re: Senate Vote Tomorrow Could Give Helping Hand to Patent Trolls
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Google’s patent strategy is to patent everything it sees and hears about. This is a good case of it: https://patentpandas.org/stories/company-patented-my-idea . As long as patent attorneys are on quotas at Google, they will be filing bullshit patents they didn’t invent all the same as the trolls. No, that's not the strategy. I served for a while on a engineers' committee in Geo to evaluate submitted patent ideas, 1…
> As for this patentpandas guy: there is lots of prior art... This guy is a naif. You're a lawyer, whose job is reading shit, and you thought the protagonist was a man? This is just stylistically razzing you. I am not this cynical and you are a qualified expert. The takeaway is that the status quo for patenting in software, and staff attorneys generally, is really unpopular, among highly educated people. There has to…
No, actually. A patent agent.
> the status quo for patenting in software, and staff attorneys generally, is really unpopular, among highly educated people.
"highly educated" doesn't mean what you'd like it to. But yes, there should be major changes, starting with making software ineligible for the one-size-fits-all patent system.
Re: Senate Vote Tomorrow Could Give Helping Hand to Patent Trolls
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Huh, hadn't read that context until now. Thanks
The demonization of Monsanto is really something. You should go back to those who've been doing it and reevaluate what they were trying to get you to think.
That feels pretty bad guyish. Unless I'm missing something?