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Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

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Re: Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

#91
post #76

I am fairly convinced that this comment section is among the best demonstrations for "isolated demands for rigor" I have personally ever seen, especially paired with any comment section about an AI-related article When we are trying to predict the implications of unproven technologies on complex worldwide economies, there is talk of "obvious inevitability" When we express concerns that chemicals humanity recently sta…

Well, we've been exposed to microplastics for decades, but what does the evidence say? Afaict, not much. We don't need RCTs, nor do we rely on them to make causal inferences about long term exposures, nor would an RCT be possible with microplastics. But we need some converging lines of evidence before we go chicken little. What's the alternative?

> Well, we've been exposed to microplastics for decades, but what does the evidence say? Afaict, not much.

The revelation that you are likely to have microplastics suffused throughout your body seems far more meaningful than "not much".

The effects of this are unknown, but it seems reasonable to be concerned about potential harm until it's effects are studied in vivo and it's statistically not more harmful than the utility we get out of it. That alone seems like decades of research. You don't need to throw up your hands and act like you can't hypothesize even if the answers are out of your reach.

Re: Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

#92
post #47
post #7

Does someone have good papers on the negative effects of microplastics (ideally on humans)? A while back I tried to look for those, and it was nontrivial to find papers that would conclusively show that they are harmful, and the mechanisms of this harmfulness. There's a ton of press about where they are (everywhere) but (as a layman) you could argue it's because they're not very reactive, and this lack of reactivity…

This is probably one of the most prominent studies till date: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38446676 Microplastics and nanoplastics in atheromas and cardiovascular events. N Engl J Med. 390(10):900-910, 2024. Summary: People with artherial plaque that contains micro- and nano-plastics have a higher risk of death during the followup period. It's an observational study, sample size is not too big, but some findings l…

People don't even care about the atherosclerotic effect of saturated fats and lipoproteins that we've known for half a century.

Re: Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

#93
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small amounts of mercury and aluminum have been shown to be safe in the bloodstream. The dose is the poison

Which is why you have to take care not to eat too much seafood

True. Children and babies, even less seafood than adults

Re: Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

#94
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We should go back to glass bottles, whenever possible. There are very good, very practical reasons we moved from glass (and metal and other materials) containers to plastic. Unless those factors are sufficiently addressed, plastic is here to stay. For those who haven't been keeping track or are just too damn young to know history, those factors include: * Weight. Glass and metal, and also other materials like cerami…

What's the toxicity of microglass particulates?

AFAIK, glass is super stable. It won't shed anything significant unless you grind it, at least according to the literature.

Re: Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we've been exposed to microplastics for decades, but what does the evidence say? Afaict, not much. We don't need RCTs, nor do we rely on them to make causal inferences about long term exposures, nor would an RCT be possible with microplastics. But we need some converging lines of evidence before we go chicken little. What's the alternative?

> Well, we've been exposed to microplastics for decades, but what does the evidence say? Afaict, not much. The revelation that you are likely to have microplastics suffused throughout your body seems far more meaningful than "not much". The effects of this are unknown, but it seems reasonable to be concerned about potential harm until it's effects are studied in vivo and it's statistically not more harmful than the u…

The fact that we can't pin down a strong effect on human health outcomes after decades of exposure should be a relief. We do have in vivo studies, but afaict they don't seem to pan out in human health outcomes.

Re: Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

#96
post #72
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably one of the most prominent studies till date: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38446676 Microplastics and nanoplastics in atheromas and cardiovascular events. N Engl J Med. 390(10):900-910, 2024. Summary: People with artherial plaque that contains micro- and nano-plastics have a higher risk of death during the followup period. It's an observational study, sample size is not too big, but some findings l…

>We should go back to glass bottles, whenever possible. There are very good, very practical reasons we moved from glass (and metal and other materials) containers to plastic. Unless those factors are sufficiently addressed, plastic is here to stay. For those who haven't been keeping track or are just too damn young to know history, those factors include: * Weight. Glass and metal, and also other materials like cerami…

> cost

Oh yes, I love paying a couple cents less per drink to have micro plastics in me

Re: Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

#97
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We should go back to glass bottles, whenever possible. There are very good, very practical reasons we moved from glass (and metal and other materials) containers to plastic. Unless those factors are sufficiently addressed, plastic is here to stay. For those who haven't been keeping track or are just too damn young to know history, those factors include: * Weight. Glass and metal, and also other materials like cerami…

I agree with every point here, and they all make a lot of sense... yet most alcoholic beverages are shipped to the consumer in glass bottles, including even the cheapest beers. I have seen some drinks shipped in plastic, so it is possible to do, I wonder if glass packaging is a 'premium' thing. Though, if they can do it for cheap beer, then I'm sure they can do it for non-alcoholic drinks on scale.

a 500 ml Al can weights 13 grams. life knows if we can skim down its weight if we don't have self openers, the price if we develop a better recycling system etc.

if plastics have impact on human health, how many $ we can save for using re-usable glass and metal?

Re: Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

#98
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We should go back to glass bottles, whenever possible. There are very good, very practical reasons we moved from glass (and metal and other materials) containers to plastic. Unless those factors are sufficiently addressed, plastic is here to stay. For those who haven't been keeping track or are just too damn young to know history, those factors include: * Weight. Glass and metal, and also other materials like cerami…

> cost Oh yes, I love paying a couple cents less per drink to have micro plastics in me

And - of course - you're probably not even paying a couple of cents less. Those couple of cents are extra profit for everyone further up the 'value chain'.

Re: Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

#99
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disappointingly nothing in that study relates these health impacts to known levels of microplastics in humans. That means there’s no way to tell, from that study, if the levels of microplastics to be found in you and me are likely to have material impact. I definitely feel we should be more serious about reducing use of plastics, especially for uses likely to contribute to microplastic levels, but it’s going to be ha…

One doesn't reduce the use of plastics without using something else as a replacement. If we replace all plastic cups with glass cups, might we get micro-glass inside ourselves instead? Glass, mostly silicon dioxide, might sound harmless, but glass can chip off in microscopic sharp fragments (think fiberglass dust - which some suggest might be as bad as asbestos). Glass also slightly dissolves in water (this is how gl…

This is completely inaccurate and disingenuous. Glass suffers from no such thing as "microglass", unlike plastic. Plastic actively sheds micro/nanoplastics into bottled water, with hundreds of thousands of particles (and probably more depending on its handling) floating in the water, along with any chemicals used to make plastic moldable, fire-retardant, etc. Glass bottles have no additives that leach out in anything but the most minute quantities, even in an alkaline solution. The same can't be said for plastic containers.

Also, while glass does dissolve in water, it is an extremely slow process that does not affect containers at room temperature in any significant way. As for the claim about glass evaporating due to vapor pressure, while technically true, the vapor pressure of glass at room temperature is so infinitesimally small that it's completely irrelevant for practical purposes. This process occurs at such a slow rate that it would take far longer than the age of the universe to have any measurable effect on a glass container.

Re: Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain

#100
post #76

I am fairly convinced that this comment section is among the best demonstrations for "isolated demands for rigor" I have personally ever seen, especially paired with any comment section about an AI-related article When we are trying to predict the implications of unproven technologies on complex worldwide economies, there is talk of "obvious inevitability" When we express concerns that chemicals humanity recently sta…

It's a soft, warm blanket of denial, because the actual implications of it are too scary.
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