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Is Tor still safe to use?

blog.torproject.org

131–140 of 602 posts

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#131

The more privacy the better as far as I'm concerned, but I've never used tor. What are people using tor for? General comms, piracy (mild illegal), other (very illegal), ...?

>other (very illegal), ...?

I will be waiting patiently for people to admit that they do very illegal things over Tor.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#132
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran probably has enough money that it could pay a thousand different isps in a thousand different ways with a thousand different os versions and tor versions. This could all be automated pretty easily.

When you think about countries that have the resources to "pay a thousand different isps in a thousand different ways with a thousand different os versions and tor versions" your first thought was Iran?

My first thought was actually "I could probably do that myself given some motivation"

Hiring people on something like fiverr could take care of most of the manual part.

My point is that if I could do it, a nation state cracking down on dissidents could likely do it too.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#133
post #5

This isn't written in the most confidence inspiring way But the things that do inspire confidence: Tor is updated against vulnerabilities pre-emptively, years before the vulnerability is known to be leveraged Tor Project happens to be investigating the attack vector of the specific tor client, which is years outdated They should have just said “we fixed that vulnerability in 2022” with a separate article about the ol…

Yeah, but the problem is that they cannot say that with 100% confidence, because the details were not shared with them (why, I have no idea)

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Surely eventually I'm going to get a hit where all three nodes in the circuit are my nodes that are logging everything? The word "eventually" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Let's say you actually manage to add 1000 servers to the tor network somehow without getting detected. The network currently sits at just under 8000 nodes. For simplicity, lets also ignore that there are different types of nodes and geogra…

>The answer is less than 0.14%. Is this per circuit? So if someone switches circuits every X hours, the chance of being caught after a year is actually quite high? And even catching 0.14% of pedophiles would probably be worth it to the FBI or whatever, nevermind Iran catching dissidents or whatever. My point is that is seems very cheap to do this (I as a random staff engineer could do it myself) and catch some people…

The happy equilibrium is that if you have enough adversary nation-state intelligence services doing this and not sharing information, they'll cancel each other out and provide free node hosting.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#137
I am interested in the “legitimate” uses for tor. I have not kept up with this but I understand it was designed by US Navy to make it hard for oppressive regiemes to track their citizens use of web.

What do we want Tor for except as a hope that Russian citizens might be able to get to the BBC site?

I am asking honestly - and would prefer not to be told my own government is on the verge of a mass pogrum so we had better take precautions.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I don't know the whole chain (or I don't use a timing attack with a known guard and exit node) then I don't see how I'd know who sent the packet in the first place. The person in the chain would connect to a random tor guard node, which would connect to another random node which would connect to my evil exit node. My evil exit node would only know which random TOR node the connection came from but that's not enoug…

Say there are only 2 sites on Tor. Site 'A' is plain text and has no pages over 1KB. You know this because it's public and you can go look at it. Site 'B' hosts memes which are mostly .GIFs that are 1MB+. You know this because it's also a public site. If I was browsing one of those sites for an hour and you were my guard, do you think you could make a good guess which site I'm visiting? I'm asking why that concept do…

The point is that there aren't only two sites available on the clearnet. Is the idea that you find a unique file size across every single site on the internet?

My understanding (that may be totally wrong) is that there is some padding added to requests so as to not be able to correlate exact packet sizes.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? tor reroutes the packets so how would you identify who is visiting who? it's not just 'layers of encryption' it is layers of redirection

If I visit facebook.com it's about 45 requests and 2.5MB of data. Are you saying that if I did that via Tor I would get a different circuit for each request or each individual packet? Eventually the guard has to send the whole payload to me, right? Wouldn't that look similar every time if there's no obfuscation?

you mean inferring the website based on packet traffic pattern if you are the guard? yeah maybe possible, not sure how distinct each website footprint would be in practice

seems like it would also be challenging to hold up in actual legal proceedings

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Surely eventually I'm going to get a hit where all three nodes in the circuit are my nodes that are logging everything? The word "eventually" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Let's say you actually manage to add 1000 servers to the tor network somehow without getting detected. The network currently sits at just under 8000 nodes. For simplicity, lets also ignore that there are different types of nodes and geogra…

> Could someone like the NSA with limitless resources do it? Quite probably, sure. If you're not worried about a fairly well-resourced government agency uncovering whatever network activity you believe needs to be anonymized, why would you be using Tor at all?

Because you're an enemy of the Iranian, Saudi, North Korean, etc. gov't.

Because your ex-spouse wants to murder you.

Because you just escaped Scientology, or another cult.

Because you're a criminal. The NSA doesn't handle that.

Because you're a journalist talking to sources in the industry you're investigating.

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