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Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

arstechnica.com

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Re: Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

#21

Post by letitgo12345 »

nightfly wrote: post #16
jmward01 wrote: post #10

I wonder what drives these decisions? Is there that much solid evidence that they get more value out of people in the office rather than home? Or are there other reasons like tax incentives that encourage in-person work over remote? Is this just a control thing or or there a compelling argument that I am missing?

It's a sneaky way of doing layoffs, everyone who won't comply has to "quit"

It's an excellent way of getting your best people who have options to quit while the worst ones who don't are forced to stick around

Re: Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

#22

Post by Borg3 »

snapcaster wrote: post #19
golemiprague wrote: post #2

The advantage of working from home was that you could take care of kids and do all the housework, this worth thousands of dollars per months. For years companies didn't adjust salaries in accordance to inflation and the cost of outsourcing kids care and house care, all that while keeping interest rate low and bailing rich bankers with printing of money. This caused funneling of wealth from the workers to asset holder…

Isn't this kind of proving the point of RTO from the company's point of view? If you're taking care of your child and doing housework instead of working?

Who cares if you do the job? I have much higher efficency at home compared to office. No distractions, no wasted time communiting. I can organize myself better too. If I need to take a break, I do it and then I do job later, still keeping 8h of work, just splited.

The problem is how you are accounted for doing work. By tasks or by time spent in office... I saw people in office doing nothing, just talks on kitchen or answering emails.. When asked about tasks.. Im working hard sir.. heh.

Its a bit complicated matter, because when you are more efficient, boss usually will attach new tasks so you have to work harder or be even more efficient. And those who are less efficient dont get new tasks.. Not smart..

Re: Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

#23

Post by ghaff »

snapcaster wrote: post #18
varispeed wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many major employers also hold investments in commercial property. Empty offices lose value. Someone somewhere got in their excel that loss of productivity from RTO is lower than potential loss of the property investments.

This keeps being repeated but there is no evidence provided. Can you point to a single example of a company where this calculation would be made/true?

The company I used to work for was aggressively not renewing leases that they no longer needed given lower office occupancy. I have no doubt that companies trying to force people back into offices have some pretty silly reasons for doing so (including pressure from local governments) but the idea it's all about execs propping up commercial real estate seriously makes no sense even if it satisfies some conspiracy theory impulse.

Re: Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

#24

Post by Tade0 »

jmward01 wrote: post #10

I wonder what drives these decisions? Is there that much solid evidence that they get more value out of people in the office rather than home? Or are there other reasons like tax incentives that encourage in-person work over remote? Is this just a control thing or or there a compelling argument that I am missing?

One possible reason might be commercial real estate investments made by decision makers, who need these properties to remain valuable.

Re: Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

#25

Post by dylan604 »

varispeed wrote: post #8
Spivak wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, working from home is easily 25%+ of my compensation and it doesn't cost the company a dime. I'm shocked executives aren't over the moon that there's a zero dollar perk they can give that's worth significant amounts of money to people.

Many major employers also hold investments in commercial property. Empty offices lose value. Someone somewhere got in their excel that loss of productivity from RTO is lower than potential loss of the property investments.

If someone is paying for rent in a building, then the value does not lower just because nobody is actually using the space. The landlord has a tenant that continues to pay rent at market rate. That's the end of the story as far as the property value goes down. At least for the companies that rent their space. For companies that own their land and buildings, that's another thing, but again, the value is not set based on how many people are working there.

Not sure where this idea came from

Re: Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

#26

Post by jfoutz »

jmward01 wrote: post #10

I wonder what drives these decisions? Is there that much solid evidence that they get more value out of people in the office rather than home? Or are there other reasons like tax incentives that encourage in-person work over remote? Is this just a control thing or or there a compelling argument that I am missing?

Rto is really important in dysfunctional organizations. Sometimes the only way forward is to know a guy. Lean on that personal connection, and unblock yourself.

Re: Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

#27

Post by Jcampuzano2 »

golemiprague wrote: post #2

The advantage of working from home was that you could take care of kids and do all the housework, this worth thousands of dollars per months. For years companies didn't adjust salaries in accordance to inflation and the cost of outsourcing kids care and house care, all that while keeping interest rate low and bailing rich bankers with printing of money. This caused funneling of wealth from the workers to asset holder…

The easy argument to this by management is that you shouldn't be taking care of your kids and doing housework while working in the first place. Another argument could be that it punishes those who don't have kids yet or don't want them unfairly working more than those who do.

You can't use the argument of "being able to do things other than work" as an argument because its easily trumped. The best arguments are those having to do with lost time and increased stress due to commuting. Being able to more quickly transition to housework and looking after kids, or just being closer to them in general during your breaks/lunches, etc. You are losing time which is in itself compensation by being forced go to an office for a job that shouldn't necessitate it.

Another is health benefits: more easy access to preparing food at home. Less stress as mentioned. Easier to go to a gym or workout at home. etc.

Re: Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

#28

Post by ChrisArchitect »

Related:

Amazon ordered a return to the office – but research says they'll backtrack

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41580488

Amazon employees: 'I'd rather go back to school than work in an office again'

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41570981

Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41558554

Re: Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

#29

Post by Spivak »

varispeed wrote: post #8
Spivak wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, working from home is easily 25%+ of my compensation and it doesn't cost the company a dime. I'm shocked executives aren't over the moon that there's a zero dollar perk they can give that's worth significant amounts of money to people.

Many major employers also hold investments in commercial property. Empty offices lose value. Someone somewhere got in their excel that loss of productivity from RTO is lower than potential loss of the property investments.

Luckily if you're a commercial tenant that's not your problem. My $dayjob actually owns our office and is in the process of selling it. They lined up a buyer in less than a month so it seems there's still plenty of demand.

Re: Backlash over Amazon's return to office comes as workers demand higher wages

#30

Post by givemeethekeys »

jmward01 wrote: post #10

I wonder what drives these decisions? Is there that much solid evidence that they get more value out of people in the office rather than home? Or are there other reasons like tax incentives that encourage in-person work over remote? Is this just a control thing or or there a compelling argument that I am missing?

A small donation to Harvard and we'll get our "study" with supporting data to show how much more productive people are in the office.

To answer your question though: the number of people who are motivated and disciplined enough to be productive remotely is in the minority. Most managers don't know how to manage remote teams (they need to micromanage or they can't fall asleep at night). Most people do the bare minimum at the office and do even less from home.

This is fine when the times are good, but when times are difficult, then everyone feels the squeeze.

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