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Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say
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Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say
#532Earlier quoted context omitted.
My phrasing says exactly what it says - that this was indiscriminate. Do you think the IDF considered whether civilians would be harmed, or have a good possibility of being harmed? Surely blowing up thousands of devices in a major urban area would fall somewhere under this consideration.
> Do you think the IDF considered whether civilians would be harmed, or have a good possibility of being harmed? Presumably that would be why they didn't use bigger explosives. Or -- taking a step back -- why they used this tactic rather than dropping bombs from the air.
Eh, deniability and international response is another reason not to drop bombs from the air.
Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say
#533Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly it’s one thing to target operatives it’s another thing to target large number of people when they’re among the civilians. Phone exploding in a market, doesn’t make it OK if the owner of the phone is a militant. With that logic the Hamas terrorist attack last year isn’t a terrorist attack because many of the victims served in the IDF, which illegally occupies their territory. This is getting ridiculous. Israel…
Under International Humanitarian Law it absolutely does make it OK if the owner of the phone is a militant. This is black letter Law of Armed Combat.
No!
>Customary international humanitarian law prohibits the use of booby traps – objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use – precisely to avoid putting civilians at grave risk and produce the devastating scenes that continue to unfold across Lebanon today. The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction. A prompt and impartial investigation into the attacks should be urgently conducted.
Lama Fakih, Middle East and North Africa Director at Human Rights Watch
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/09/18/lebanon-exploding-pagers...
Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say
#534If the mossad was able to plant explosives without being caught, I wouldn't be surprised if they also planted bugs (indiscriminately) in many electronic devices delivered to Lebanon such as TVs, computers, phones etc... Similar to the spy chips implants within the Supermicro server motherboards.
Supermicro never happened. Zero evidence. The reporters and the paper (Bloomberg?) have never retracted it, which is a reflection of their crappy reporting. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/02/12/bloomberg-big-c...
Until a few hours ago there was "zero evidence" that thousands of pagers and walkie talkies had been tampered to explode via a remote command.
Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say
#535Is this making anyone else really nervous about how much of our tech comes from China?
I'm thinking a scenario like this:
- China makes a rule that all cellphones leaving the country must go through an "inspection facility" (where the explosive hardware and the backdoor trigger chip will be installed)
- A year after the next big iPhone release, China sends a huge convoy of warships and troop transports toward Taiwan, telegraphing a major assault
- The US says "Stop!"
- China presses a button and a few thousand iPhones blow up in the US
- China says "That is just a small taste of our capability, we just pressed the small red button. If you tell us to un-hand Taiwan again, we'll press the big red button and un-hand a few million of your citizens"
Now that this kind of attack is frontpage news, every country in the world is by now aware it's possible -- and it appears to be super effective. So it seems entirely reasonable that some countries will start planning to do the same sort of attack against their enemies.
What I'm saying is, now that everyone's become aware this sort of thing is possible and effective, China might realize it has the means, opportunity, and possibly motive to attack the US this way on a large scale.
As I'd very much prefer not to be maimed or killed by my electronics, I hope the US government is actively looking into effective defenses against China or anyone who would try this sort of attack on US soil.
Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say
#536Earlier quoted context omitted.
I grew up in NYC and definitely learned about Tulsa.
You are in the minority. Huge chunks of society were surprised by the Watchmen episode. My AP US History introduced the civil war section by saying despite his personal beliefs, he was teaching us to pass the exam and any discussion about the war being over slavery and not state's rights was a waste of class time as that would not get us a four or five on the test.
I believe you, and I’m not happy about that.
My AP history teacher in high school was black, so that may have affected it too, or perhaps it was the NYC curriculum as compared to curriculums in the South. I’m not sure, but I definitely recall hearing about and reading about Tulsa far before HS. I wish I knew when.
But I totally believe you that is probably not true across wide swaths of the country.
Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems like the purpose was to disable enemy combatants, and prevent those combatants from striking Israel; which would be a legitimate and targeted strike. Your phrasing makes it seems like the explosives were targeted at damaging the restaurants and stores (along with, perhaps all the occupants), which would not be a legitimate and targeted strike.
My phrasing says exactly what it says - that this was indiscriminate. Do you think the IDF considered whether civilians would be harmed, or have a good possibility of being harmed? Surely blowing up thousands of devices in a major urban area would fall somewhere under this consideration.
If they didn’t consider civilians, they could have been a lot more effective. But, they targeted combatants devices, which also limits the destruction capability of the bomb.
Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say
#538Earlier quoted context omitted.
Considering Hezbollah is a designated terrorist organisation in many countries, this probably should be considered an anti-terrorist operation. The targets are enemy combatants. Also notably, it clearly did not intentionally target civilians, although there may be civilian casualties which is uncharacteristic of a terrorist attack.
I assume by "many countries" you mean the US and its allies? Is that it then? Your definition of "terrorist" is whoever the West designates a terrorist? Ergo Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.
Yes that is how "terrorism" is defined: one geopolitical entity's enemy relative to another
See here, even the US military can be labeled terrorists in the eyes of american people https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41578412
Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say
#539Is this making anyone else really nervous about how much of our tech comes from China? I'm thinking a scenario like this: - China makes a rule that all cellphones leaving the country must go through an "inspection facility" (where the explosive hardware and the backdoor trigger chip will be installed) - A year after the next big iPhone release, China sends a huge convoy of warships and troop transports toward Taiwan,…
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Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say
#540Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, the supply chain is very clearly compromised. How much of it is an excellent question. It's remarkable that apparently (?) none of the devices went off prematurely and tipped off the targets. That implies a higher degree of QA than you'd expect from a more ramshackle organization.
I guess from now on they will fly it in directly from China.
How much money would it take to compromise a Chinese factory? Probably not a lot.