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Ask HN: Is there any place on the internet capable of freedom of speech?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there any place on the internet capable of freedom of speech?

#11

Post by fuzzfactor »

rsynnott wrote: post #6

> The places that aren't moderated are filled with political crap such as to tarnish their credibility, so that the people will stay away by their own will. This implies _intent_. I mean, it sounds like what you want is just a different content policy, really? A ban on politics? Would make for a rather boring social media site, I suspect; everything is ultimately politics.

>sounds like what you want is just a different content policy

This could always be the heart of the matter.

Whether strictly moderated or casually self-adjusting, once an extreme or somewhat non-mainstream "groupthink" starts to dominate, numerically or some other way, then any opposite viewpoints will be repressed to an increasing degree.

The best you can probably do is to engage where you are compatible with the content as it has already devolved.

As I implied in my other comment, probably the only time there is any chance for nothing to have devolved in terms of free speech, is if you get in at the very beginning. Or with greater certainty, it does seem intuitive, hosting it your dang self.

Re: Ask HN: Is there any place on the internet capable of freedom of speech?

#12

Post by rsynnott »

DeepSeaTortoise wrote: post #10

Pew Research has looked into various places that proclaimed themselves as "free speech platforms" and found that only "Gab" doesn't censor its users (beyond their content policy). As anyone could guess, the result is ... edgy.

> and found that only "Gab" doesn't censor its users (beyond their content policy).

... Wait, what does that mean? They don't censor, except for the censorship?

Re: Ask HN: Is there any place on the internet capable of freedom of speech?

#13

Post by kibwen »

The fundamental tension that you must resolve is that if your notion of free speech allows people to screech incoherently into megaphones to drown out everyone else in the room, then you don't have free speech.

Censors have learned that they don't need to deny people the right to speak, they just need to drown it out with infinite noise.

There is no simple or easy resolution to this problem. The only useful platforms for the free exchange of ideas must find ways to balance the signal:noise ratio, which is isomorphic to moderation. And if you ask, "who does the moderation?", yes, that's precisely the problem. Unfortunately, the alternative, no moderation, is trivial to censor in practice.

Furthermore, keep in mind that free speech is a means, not an end. Free society is the end.

Re: Ask HN: Is there any place on the internet capable of freedom of speech?

#15

Post by jakewins »

rsynnott wrote: post #12
DeepSeaTortoise wrote: post #10

Pew Research has looked into various places that proclaimed themselves as "free speech platforms" and found that only "Gab" doesn't censor its users (beyond their content policy). As anyone could guess, the result is ... edgy.

> and found that only "Gab" doesn't censor its users (beyond their content policy). ... Wait, what does that mean? They don't censor, except for the censorship?

If your definition of “censorship free” is “not allowed to remove CP and similar content that comes with criminal liability for the site owner”, then yeah they do “censor” things.

What people normally mean when they say “free speech” is in the US first amendment sense, not in the “you can post videos of horrible crimes you’ve committed” sense.

Gabs content policy is pretty short and basically just says this. No CP and other criminal content, anything protected by first amendment is ok.

Re: Ask HN: Is there any place on the internet capable of freedom of speech?

#17

Post by prometheus76 »

rsynnott wrote: post #12
DeepSeaTortoise wrote: post #10

Pew Research has looked into various places that proclaimed themselves as "free speech platforms" and found that only "Gab" doesn't censor its users (beyond their content policy). As anyone could guess, the result is ... edgy.

> and found that only "Gab" doesn't censor its users (beyond their content policy). ... Wait, what does that mean? They don't censor, except for the censorship?

Their content policy is basically don't say anything illegal (inciting violence, etc.) and no porn. Their stance is that porn images are not speech.

Re: Ask HN: Is there any place on the internet capable of freedom of speech?

#18

Post by hulitu »

rsynnott wrote: post #6

> The places that aren't moderated are filled with political crap such as to tarnish their credibility, so that the people will stay away by their own will. This implies _intent_. I mean, it sounds like what you want is just a different content policy, really? A ban on politics? Would make for a rather boring social media site, I suspect; everything is ultimately politics.

> This implies _intent_.

And, incredibly, it is.

Re: Ask HN: Is there any place on the internet capable of freedom of speech?

#19

Post by tunesmith »

I'm having trouble even understanding the question, because I think your usage of "free speech" means something different than is normally intended. Free expression and free will always have an implied caveat, like "free will except where it impedes that of another". Free speech is always going to have a Venn diagram with "behavior", some of which is illegal. So if you're asking where you can go do illegal stuff, that's one question. If you're asking where you can talk about legal stuff and do legal stuff, but where you don't feel able to right now, that's more interesting.

Re: Ask HN: Is there any place on the internet capable of freedom of speech?

#20

Post by panosfilianos »

A solution in-between can be Mastodon.

Rich feature set, ability to be ingested by other services (other M servers, Bluesky, etc.), can self-host.

I don't know too much about search engine indexing, but I guess in the day and age you'd have to find your audience by other means anyway.

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